Great closet flange graphic for newbies

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pazure

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At first, I was bewildered by all the different types of closet flanges and ways they could be installed. This graphic from Home Depot really helped me understand them, and it even cites which are code compliant and which not.

My question is, if it isn't code approved, then why are they allowing one to purchase this product, or is code approval only for professionals who need to get the inspector seal of approval? In other words, if a DIY'er were to do it afterwards, would the work be just as dependable?

closet-flange-types.jpg
 

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Reach4

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Your drawings show a lot of plastic rings, which can be less durable. Does not show outside compression flanges, which have some really nice attributes. Does not show Push-Tite flanges. Does not show 45 degree output flanges. And there are more... It does show some useful stuff.

I am surprised that Oatey Twist-N-Set flanges are not code approved. I am also surprised that the HD site says that, because there are things like flex tailpiece extension that I don't think I have seen that notation on. I suspect there are inside compression flanges that are code approved.

The no-glue flanges have easy do-overs and replacements. They are really nice for those who don't always get things right the first time.
 

pazure

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Thanks for the reply Reach4. Yeah, the graphic isn't meant to be exhaustive, nor is it meant to deal with the benefits (steel/metal to plastic) but to me, it has the key terms of the main flange types. I'd be happy to make up a graphic to each and every type if you can supply me with links, and what each variation is called (spigot, offset, etc.). It would benefit me as well.
 

Terry

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sioux_chief_w_spacer.jpg


Stainless rings with Sioux Chief. And they also make spacers to go under the flange if needed. With stainless rings I can use the slots, which makes it much easier if the tile guy puts his tile too close to the flange. A stainless ring doesn't bend like plastic. I get so tired of fixing those plastic closet flanges that some guys install.

sioux-chief-inside-3-883-atms-side.jpg


sioux-chief-inside-3-883-atms-top.jpg
 
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pazure

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If you think it would be worthwhile Terry, I have some pretty good Photoshop skills and can put together a helpful graphic that covers most types. I would need back and forth communication with an expert until the graphic is technically correct.

I have to say that I'm still a bit confused with all the terms that are used when it comes to closet flanges. And when you say "if the tile guy puts his tile too close to the flange". I thought the flange had to be screwed into the finished (tiled) floor!! So the tile has to at least extend to under the flange right?

My own situation is I have full flange access since the subfloor is now removed (it was way out of level). After I cut the old ABS flange out, I'll have a 3" pipe sitting there. Do I go for an Inside 3" ABS, Hub 3" ABS, or Spigot 3" ABS? Where do I get the fitting that goes with the Spigot or does that come with the flange? Would I go with this since it maintains the full 3" width as opposed to the Inside connection which loses a substantial amount of pipe width? I suppose I'll need to raise the pipe up using a coupling and extra 3" piece of ABS.

I'm tempted to just get a Twist-n-set, but at this point, I'm all researched out and still confused.
 
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Reach4

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I have to say that I'm still a bit confused with all the terms that are used when it comes to closet flanges. And when you say "if the tile guy puts his tile too close to the flange". I thought the flange had to be screwed into the finished (tiled) floor!! So the tile has to at least extend to under the flange right?
Imagine an outside closet flange. You need clearance outside of the pipe, so a round (annular) space is needed so that the closet flange can come around the pipe.


jones-stephens-toilet-flanges-c40425-64_145.jpg


This is a Code Blue flange. It needs extra clearance for the bolts that control compression. So the clearance is not a circle. https://www.oatey.com/products/oatey-cast-iron-closet-flange-279105324 is similar. https://www.supplyhouse.com/Oatey-42255-4-Cast-Iron-Closet-Flange-w-o-Test-Cap So getting a place to screw down the flange but clearing the compression bolts would be tricky -- probably too trick for most floor people.

What Terry is probably largely thinking of is when you use a glued 3x4 closet flange, and you have a 3 inch pipe coming up. That flange goes outside of a 3 inch pipe.
 
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pazure

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Got it. That makes sense now.

To make things easier on myself, I think I'll just wire cut my old existing flange after strapping it to the joist (I don't like the ragged cut of a sawzall, plus, it sits tight to a joist), and then use a Fernco shielded to transition to PVC. Then, just use Push tite. The convenience of being able to unscew it and put in a new one if the flange is broken sits well with me.

I'm still committed to doing up a graphic if the pros think it would help this forum.
 

Reach4

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Then, just use Push tite. The convenience of being able to unscew it and put in a new one if the flange is broken sits well with me.
Or if you decide to re-do the floor.
I'm still committed to doing up a graphic if the pros think it would help this forum.
Good idea. I would keep it basic rather than high-resolution.
 

pazure

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Reach4, this is my very rough beginning graphic. In looking at all the different types, it occurred to me that there were three basic types of connections being made. Inside (the smaller flange connection goes inside the pipe), Same size (the inner flange size is the same as the size of the pipe), and Outside (the larger flange envelops the pipe).

It seems pretty obvious when placed in a graphic like this. I haven't tried to capture all the different materials that make up the flanges (PVC, ABS, Cast iron). That could be added in the space below. I'd also like to in some way add a graphic for how "approved" by plumbers certain methods are. Thumbs up would be approved by most. Thumbs sideways is "meh". Thumbs down, frowned on.

Once I get some feedback, I can add "not code approved" where necessary.

Do you think this is worth continuing?
Closet flange connection types.jpg
 

Reach4

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Looks useful to me. Maybe "Same size fit" could be same size as pipe, or something? Or maybe better as you have it.
For outside, I would add outside compression, such as Code Blue.

If you wanted to expand it, there are 45 degree spigot and hub, but that might overly complicate it.
 

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Question: do the plastic closet flanges with metal rings have a plastic groove that the metal fits into, and the split closet flanges can fit into that same groove if the metal rots away?
 

Terry

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Question: do the plastic closet flanges with metal rings have a plastic groove that the metal fits into, and the split closet flanges can fit into that same groove if the metal rots away?

Yes, the groove fits the metal ring, which is also where the proper replacement rings fit in.
 

Jeff H Young

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At first, I was bewildered by all the different types of closet flanges and ways they could be installed. This graphic from Home Depot really helped me understand them, and it even cites which are code compliant and which not.

My question is, if it isn't code approved, then why are they allowing one to purchase this product, or is code approval only for professionals who need to get the inspector seal of approval? In other words, if a DIY'er were to do it afterwards, would the work be just as dependable?

closet-flange-types.jpg



Good Info, but to answer your question some products just never go through the process of getting approved, some are made but are illegal but a demand is for them. I guess we don't have laws that stop someone from making something that might get used somewhere that its not allowed to be . I don't think a disclosure is always required but manufacture have insurance and legal departments that advice or demand the disclosure. I was looking at plastic water heater pans some disclose not for gas water heaters , some don't say , and some claim approved for gas water heater. but even then That doesn't necessarily mean your code allows it.
Any way back to closet flanges I was always taught to not get caught using offset rings that they aren't code I've also been directed to install them and have used many of them. never knew for sure if UPC allows them .
Sometimes I'm involved in small project just setting a W/c and the choices at the big box nearby is horrible, I cant stock everything and sometimes no choice but go 10 to 15 miles But knowing there are options a big help to many sometimes ordering and waiting a few days is worth it.
 
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Reach4

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Any way back to closet flanges I was always taught to not get caught using offset rings that they arent code Ive also been directed to install them and have used many of them. never knew for sure if UPC allows them .
https://www.upcitemdb.com/upc/38753435008
https://www.upcitemdb.com/upc/739236305688

https://www.oatey.com/products/oatey-level-fit-offset-closet-flange-metal-ring-1468302402 shows UPC codes.

https://www.wholesaleindustrialsupp...-iron-flanges/cast-iron-offset-closet-flange/ shows the UPC code for the Steven Jones Code Blue offset closet flange.

So at least some of them are UPC approved.
 

Jeff H Young

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Thanks Reach 4, I don't feel so naughty any more, I really didn't know we hear so many things but without checking real good hard to know
 

Sylvan

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"
At first, I was bewildered by all the different types of closet flanges and ways they could be installed. This graphic from Home Depot really helped me understand them, and it even cites which are code compliant and which not.
My question is, if it isn't code approved, then why are they allowing one to purchase this product, or is code approval only for professionals who need to get the inspector seal of approval?"

Big box stores hire do not hire the sharpest crayons in the box

I saw "M" tubing for sale NYC does not allow M to be used in plumbing systems

I saw non lead free soldiers being sold again not code approved on potable water

I won an amazing judgment against a building that allowed someone to use a plastic connector to a toilet tank that leaked and caused several hundred thousand dollars to a doctors office below




ADAMEVE.jpg
 
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pazure

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Yeah Sylvan, that's frustrating.

Part of the reason for my initial confusion was the abundance of terms being used, both by plumbers and manufacturers. My graphic is an attempt to clear that up, so I'll be adding a few new items. First, I'll add Terry's replacement metal ring. That and the split ring variation Reach4 mentions.

Here is another term used by Oatey that has me scratching my head, and it is one of the UPC'd flanges Reach4 links to (though not the offset one). It's also the flange I've selected for my current project (the stainless steel flange not rusting is the major reason). Hope it's a good choice.

What the heck is an Oatey "Level Fit Closet Flange"? Is this as opposed to the out-of-level fit ones? Does that mean it sits as low as possible? .40" isn't too shallow.

https://www.oatey.com/products/oate...ainless-steel-ring-665281003?upc=038753434957
 

Reach4

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Oatey "Level Fit Closet Flange"? Is this as opposed to the out-of-level fit ones? Does that mean it sits as low as possible?
Some inside closet flanges have a bevel (fillet) that prevents sitting on a dead-level 4 inch pipe. https://terrylove.com/forums/index....-fully-insert-into-soil-pipe-solutions.90840/ describes that, tho the pipe there actually sat proud of the floor.

I suspect that that is Oatey's term for a flange that will fit. This is a Sioux Chief
884-PTM, that I think would fit, but they don't use that feature in the title.
884-ptm-1.jpg


I may be wrong on that term, but that is my guess.
 

Jeff H Young

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Dumb names for sure and a lot of confusion around on closet rings for sure. I haven't tried the Out of level closet flange yet. I think as someone else mentioned "level fit " means the bottom will go down all the way into a fitting
 
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