Uponor PEX issues - 5 leaks in 2 months. House built in 2015. Need advice.
- Thread starter Disnyfan1
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JohnCT
Still learning..slowly
Uponor lists it on their website so I assume it's still being made.
Personally, I never used colored PEX because I always thought it looked amateurish (ironic since an amateur is what I am).
John
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Jeff H Young
In the Trades
Agree on the look especially when its sloppily running all over hell , mixed feelings on the color coding Ive never piped house with pex and it definately would take a little getting used to running coils of sloppy pipe down joist bays etc a lot more moving the ladder around plus youve got 4 differant pipe that you are using rather than mostly just 2 (1/2 and 3/4 ) mostly it definately is Fast moving production!
HighqualityPlumbing
Member
How widespread is the issue?
I have seen reports of failure mostly of installations between ca. 2012 and 2022, including reports of entire condo associations replacing failing Uponor PEX-A.
There are pictures of failures of straight sections of white pipe here and on Reddit; so the problem is not isolated to the red/blue coloring process.
It would appear that Uponor cheaped out trying to maximize their profits, and spent little to nothing on ongoing quality control, at least during those 10 years; or how else can it be that an entire color coating process that removes the oxidation stabilizers, goes unnoticed for such a long time. And then apparently there are at least two independent root causes, the color coating and at least one more that also affects clear/white pipe.
The Colorado class action resulted in a $18M settlement.
My understanding is that Uponor is not required and will not disclose statistics of failures, or which years or batches might be affected.
So we can only guess. If the average class action payout per homeowner in Colorado was $18k, then there were 1000 members of the class action in Colorado.
If only every other affected homeowner in Colorado joined the class action, and we multiply the nationwide problem by 50 for 50 states, then we can assume ca. 100,000 already failed installations nationwide that surfaced within ca. 10 years after installation.
It appears that recirculation lines but also regular hot water lines break first, which is expected. However most regular hot water lines will be safely within the temperature, pressure, and Chlorine/Chloramine concentation limits of ASTM F2023 with a 50 year target design life; in most cases actually significantly lower than the limits as most houses have a PRV and significantly lower water temperatures than the ASTM F2023 testing limits. (Chlorine/Chloramine concentration of city water is regulated for health reasons.) So we can safely assume that cold water line failures follow with a delay, as there already are reports of cold water line failures.
For simplicity, let's assume that if x installations leaked within the first 10 years, then x*5 will fail within the 50 years of expected life. (I installed PEX everywhere in my house including under slab etc.; I personally would have never installed PEX if I didn't expect at least 50 years of life. Copper pipes can fail at 25 years, but most properly installed copper seems to last at least 50-100 years.)
So as a very rough estimation, we might expect 100,000 * 5 = 500,000 Uponor Pex-A installations with material failures nationwide of installations from between 2012 and 2022.
Is my estimation correct? I don't know how many total Uponor PEX-A installations happened in that period; we can probably estimate based on Uponor market share and total U.S. new home construction and repiping projects. Can we perhaps assume that all or almost all Uponor pipe from that period will have a measurably reduced lifetime? The fact that many contractors installed many miles worth of pipe that didn't fail (yet) is not necessarily indicative; it would be expected that the failures (other than recirculation lines) occur mostly in the 10-50 years after installation, depending on temperature/pressure and Chlorine/Chloramine levels.
I also doubt that UV exposure at time of installation is a major contributing factor. I'm sure there are single instances of sloppy handling or construction delays; but in the bulk of installations the contractor would not leave the pipe sitting outside or exposed for more than the allowable 30 days, not to mention the coils are delivered in cardboard boxes that would protect them from sun.
When I installed my PEX in ca. 2016, Uponor was one of the most highly regarded manufacturers, and highly recommended by most reputable contractors as a premium material and coupling system. I'm trying to figure out my chances of having a pipe failure because I did the repipe as I was hoping to not open my walls and yard again in my lifetime; I also still have leftover Uponor pipe for future projects. My pipes are not failing yet, but there is significant yellowing and blotting, whereas some commenters here said they saw some white Uponor pipe that stayed bright white longer.
Based on the estimated nationwide and projected numbers, to me it would appear that this is not an isolated problem, but a total and large-scale disaster.
Hard to understand why regulators (I guess in this case the municipalities who are responsible for construction codes, inspections, and permissible materials) don't intervene and force them to disclose the affected years/batches and remedies they have done in their manufacturing process, for the protection of homeowners; or else threaten to shut this organization down i.e. pull their PEX from the plumbing codes.
I have seen reports of failure mostly of installations between ca. 2012 and 2022, including reports of entire condo associations replacing failing Uponor PEX-A.
There are pictures of failures of straight sections of white pipe here and on Reddit; so the problem is not isolated to the red/blue coloring process.
It would appear that Uponor cheaped out trying to maximize their profits, and spent little to nothing on ongoing quality control, at least during those 10 years; or how else can it be that an entire color coating process that removes the oxidation stabilizers, goes unnoticed for such a long time. And then apparently there are at least two independent root causes, the color coating and at least one more that also affects clear/white pipe.
The Colorado class action resulted in a $18M settlement.
My understanding is that Uponor is not required and will not disclose statistics of failures, or which years or batches might be affected.
So we can only guess. If the average class action payout per homeowner in Colorado was $18k, then there were 1000 members of the class action in Colorado.
If only every other affected homeowner in Colorado joined the class action, and we multiply the nationwide problem by 50 for 50 states, then we can assume ca. 100,000 already failed installations nationwide that surfaced within ca. 10 years after installation.
It appears that recirculation lines but also regular hot water lines break first, which is expected. However most regular hot water lines will be safely within the temperature, pressure, and Chlorine/Chloramine concentation limits of ASTM F2023 with a 50 year target design life; in most cases actually significantly lower than the limits as most houses have a PRV and significantly lower water temperatures than the ASTM F2023 testing limits. (Chlorine/Chloramine concentration of city water is regulated for health reasons.) So we can safely assume that cold water line failures follow with a delay, as there already are reports of cold water line failures.
For simplicity, let's assume that if x installations leaked within the first 10 years, then x*5 will fail within the 50 years of expected life. (I installed PEX everywhere in my house including under slab etc.; I personally would have never installed PEX if I didn't expect at least 50 years of life. Copper pipes can fail at 25 years, but most properly installed copper seems to last at least 50-100 years.)
So as a very rough estimation, we might expect 100,000 * 5 = 500,000 Uponor Pex-A installations with material failures nationwide of installations from between 2012 and 2022.
Is my estimation correct? I don't know how many total Uponor PEX-A installations happened in that period; we can probably estimate based on Uponor market share and total U.S. new home construction and repiping projects. Can we perhaps assume that all or almost all Uponor pipe from that period will have a measurably reduced lifetime? The fact that many contractors installed many miles worth of pipe that didn't fail (yet) is not necessarily indicative; it would be expected that the failures (other than recirculation lines) occur mostly in the 10-50 years after installation, depending on temperature/pressure and Chlorine/Chloramine levels.
I also doubt that UV exposure at time of installation is a major contributing factor. I'm sure there are single instances of sloppy handling or construction delays; but in the bulk of installations the contractor would not leave the pipe sitting outside or exposed for more than the allowable 30 days, not to mention the coils are delivered in cardboard boxes that would protect them from sun.
When I installed my PEX in ca. 2016, Uponor was one of the most highly regarded manufacturers, and highly recommended by most reputable contractors as a premium material and coupling system. I'm trying to figure out my chances of having a pipe failure because I did the repipe as I was hoping to not open my walls and yard again in my lifetime; I also still have leftover Uponor pipe for future projects. My pipes are not failing yet, but there is significant yellowing and blotting, whereas some commenters here said they saw some white Uponor pipe that stayed bright white longer.
Based on the estimated nationwide and projected numbers, to me it would appear that this is not an isolated problem, but a total and large-scale disaster.
Hard to understand why regulators (I guess in this case the municipalities who are responsible for construction codes, inspections, and permissible materials) don't intervene and force them to disclose the affected years/batches and remedies they have done in their manufacturing process, for the protection of homeowners; or else threaten to shut this organization down i.e. pull their PEX from the plumbing codes.
Last edited:
HighqualityPlumbing
Member
It looks like Uponor is owned by Georg Fischer AG, Switzerland: https://www.google.com/finance/quote/GF:SWX
Taylorjm
Active Member
Shhhhhhh. Don't mention statistics like that. There is nothing to see here Uponor is wonderful. We love Uponor. Now have some more kool aid and let's pass a snake around the room.
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