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I am having only a 50% success rate in making 1/2" pex A connections that do not leak (out of 8 attempted connections). All the fittings are brass. I have a 100% success rate making 3/4" pex A connections that do not leak (on 10 connections, mostly brass). I would like to isolate the problem in my 1/2" process or materials so that I may fix it. I have a 100% success rate with sweating copper thus far... thought the pex was supposed to be easier!
I have run 4 1/2" pex A home runs for a shower and lavatory (each requiring a hot and cold). 3 out of the 4 connections at the manifold have slow dripping leaks. The connections at the fixtures are all good except for the hot lav connection, which has a somewhat faster dribble. The lav uses the 1/2" FIP fittings below while the shower uses the 1/2" sweat connections.
www.pexuniverse.com
www.pexuniverse.com
www.pexuniverse.com
The FIP and sweat fittings all came with protective plastic sleeves over the pex connector whereas the manifold heads had no such protection. 75% of the failures are on the manifold. The plastic sleeve on the one leaking FIP fitting was only removed seconds before being connected.
The Souix Chief manifold valve heads certainly do have imperfections if I look closely enough. They were delivered like this from pexuniverse.com. Take a look:
Are the imperfections above serious enough to cause leaks? Would this be normal condition for a new valve? It isn't even possible for a flat surface (like the inside of a shipping box) to come into contact with that middle barb with the groove. Short of exchanging this product for an actually-new one, are there any hacks to get this sealed? Returning these would be a bit of a PITA since they were not purchased locally.
I am rotating the tool somewhere between 20 and 60 degrees between expansions. I am not using anything to measure the exact amount of rotation, so the amount is somewhat haphazard. I generally try to make sure no two expansions take place at the very same angle.
I am doing somewhere between 5 and 8 expansions. I will generally do 2 or 3 expansions at full insertion.
I am doing somewhere between 5 and 8 expansions. I will generally do 2 or 3 expansions at full insertion.
This VEVOR tool is way cheaper than any others I have seen. Anyone ever used it with half inch successfully? Nobody in town rents the automatics and I'd rather not spend $500 to run an experiment with the DeWalt.
Should I try some SharkBite brand rings to go with the SharkBite pipe instead of the Sioux Chief rings? I got the Sioux Chief ones because they were cheaper. For the 10 flawless 3/4" connections, I used SharkBite brand everything--pipe, rings, fittings. Used the same expander tool (different head).
Seems square to me.
It's pushed all the way to the lip on the ring.
Judge for yourself. The right one leaks (as you can see from the water on its face) the left one does not.
I did not take any action to clean the inside of the pipe. However, we are talking about fresh cuts in the middle of a 300ft length of pipe. I am assuming it came clean from the factory.
I used a clean cotton cloth (paint rag) to wipe off each fitting, except for the FIP ones where I removed the factory plastic sleeve seconds before sliding the pex over the fitting.
It's been over 24 hours on one of the leaky connections, but more like 12 hours for the other 3. These are all indoors where the temperatures are somewhat reasonable, but the water in the manifolds can be pretty cold. Even the hot manifold has one leak though. I did try blasting one with a hair dryer for a few minutes without success.
The one non-leaky connection to the manifold is on the hot side, and it took several hours before it could be used without leaking. The 3 non-leaky connections at the fixtures also required at least an hour to seal. My understanding is that it is not normal to need to wait so long for pex A connections to seal. Does this suggest the pipe/rings/tool (usage) is more likely the culprit?
The 3/4" pex with one exception sealed within minutes.
Any recommendations for where I should go from here? I need to run about 10 more home runs, and I'd like to avoid repeating this pattern. And obviously I need to fix the existing leaks.
• Run a short length of pipe connecting two valve heads together. Pressure test it. Record result. Remove the pipe. Repeat 10 times using the very same pair of valves. If a specific valve either fails or succeeds every time, then the problem is likely the valve head and not the tool/pipe. If it succeeds some times and not others, then the problem probably is not the valve head. Unfortunately, it seems like this might take a week if it takes hours for the pex to contract.
• Spend $500 for the dewalt kit to see if it works better.
• Experiment with doing more expansions or different rotations with the expansion tool. Again, quite time consuming since it has taken hours for these things to seal.
• Buy different rings and test whether things get better.
• Buy different pipe and test whether things get better.
• Buy different manifold and test whether things get better.
I have run 4 1/2" pex A home runs for a shower and lavatory (each requiring a hot and cold). 3 out of the 4 connections at the manifold have slow dripping leaks. The connections at the fixtures are all good except for the hot lav connection, which has a somewhat faster dribble. The lav uses the 1/2" FIP fittings below while the shower uses the 1/2" sweat connections.
Materials and tools:
Sioux Chief 649W2, 1/2" PEX-A Expansion Rings - PexUniverse
Expansion rings for 1/2" PEX-A tubing. For use with an expander tool and expansion style PEX fittings (F1960). Compatible with Uponor, Rehau, Mr. PEX and other tubing/fitting brands.
www.pexuniverse.com
6-branch, 1/2" PEX-A (F1960) Expansion Copper Manifold w/ Valves, Lead-Free - PexUniverse
Sioux Chief BranchMaster copper plumbing manifold with 6 branches and 1/2" PEX expansion (F1960) ball valves, 3/4" male sweat trunk inlet and closed trunk outlet.
www.pexuniverse.com
10-branch, 1/2" PEX-A (F1960) Expansion Copper Manifold w/ Valves, Lead-Free - PexUniverse
Sioux Chief BranchMaster copper plumbing manifold with 10 branches and 1/2" PEX expansion (F1960) ball valves, 3/4" male sweat trunk inlet and closed trunk outlet.
www.pexuniverse.com
The possible points of failure that I can think of are:
• Rings or pipe are too cold to expand/contract properly
The basement (where the manifolds live) might often be 55F or so. And the water inside the cold manifold is probably sucking some heat from the pipe once in contact. This might explain why most of the problems occur in the basement. Perhaps I need to warm the rings, pipe, and manifold before using the expansion tool?• The brass fittings have nicks, grooves, etc
The FIP and sweat fittings all came with protective plastic sleeves over the pex connector whereas the manifold heads had no such protection. 75% of the failures are on the manifold. The plastic sleeve on the one leaking FIP fitting was only removed seconds before being connected.
The Souix Chief manifold valve heads certainly do have imperfections if I look closely enough. They were delivered like this from pexuniverse.com. Take a look:
Are the imperfections above serious enough to cause leaks? Would this be normal condition for a new valve? It isn't even possible for a flat surface (like the inside of a shipping box) to come into contact with that middle barb with the groove. Short of exchanging this product for an actually-new one, are there any hacks to get this sealed? Returning these would be a bit of a PITA since they were not purchased locally.
• I am not rotating the manual expansion tool the appropriate amount between expansions.
I am rotating the tool somewhere between 20 and 60 degrees between expansions. I am not using anything to measure the exact amount of rotation, so the amount is somewhat haphazard. I generally try to make sure no two expansions take place at the very same angle.
• I am doing too many expansions
I am doing somewhere between 5 and 8 expansions. I will generally do 2 or 3 expansions at full insertion.
• I am doing too few expansions
I am doing somewhere between 5 and 8 expansions. I will generally do 2 or 3 expansions at full insertion.
• There is a reason this expansion tool is only $87
This VEVOR tool is way cheaper than any others I have seen. Anyone ever used it with half inch successfully? Nobody in town rents the automatics and I'd rather not spend $500 to run an experiment with the DeWalt.
• I have defective pipe
• I have defective rings
• The pipe and rings are not compatible
Should I try some SharkBite brand rings to go with the SharkBite pipe instead of the Sioux Chief rings? I got the Sioux Chief ones because they were cheaper. For the 10 flawless 3/4" connections, I used SharkBite brand everything--pipe, rings, fittings. Used the same expander tool (different head).
• I am not cutting the end squarely enough
Seems square to me.
• I am not sliding the ring far enough onto the pipe.
It's pushed all the way to the lip on the ring.
• I am sliding the pipe either too far or not far enough onto the fittings.
Judge for yourself. The right one leaks (as you can see from the water on its face) the left one does not.
• Pipe is dirty
I did not take any action to clean the inside of the pipe. However, we are talking about fresh cuts in the middle of a 300ft length of pipe. I am assuming it came clean from the factory.
• Brass is dirty
I used a clean cotton cloth (paint rag) to wipe off each fitting, except for the FIP ones where I removed the factory plastic sleeve seconds before sliding the pex over the fitting.
• Haven't waited long enough for the pex to contract
It's been over 24 hours on one of the leaky connections, but more like 12 hours for the other 3. These are all indoors where the temperatures are somewhat reasonable, but the water in the manifolds can be pretty cold. Even the hot manifold has one leak though. I did try blasting one with a hair dryer for a few minutes without success.
The one non-leaky connection to the manifold is on the hot side, and it took several hours before it could be used without leaking. The 3 non-leaky connections at the fixtures also required at least an hour to seal. My understanding is that it is not normal to need to wait so long for pex A connections to seal. Does this suggest the pipe/rings/tool (usage) is more likely the culprit?
The 3/4" pex with one exception sealed within minutes.
Any recommendations for where I should go from here? I need to run about 10 more home runs, and I'd like to avoid repeating this pattern. And obviously I need to fix the existing leaks.
Diagnostics I might perform:
• Keep the rings in my pocket for the rest of the day. Store the pipe in a warmer space. Drain the cold manifold of cold water. Then try running more lines.• Run a short length of pipe connecting two valve heads together. Pressure test it. Record result. Remove the pipe. Repeat 10 times using the very same pair of valves. If a specific valve either fails or succeeds every time, then the problem is likely the valve head and not the tool/pipe. If it succeeds some times and not others, then the problem probably is not the valve head. Unfortunately, it seems like this might take a week if it takes hours for the pex to contract.
• Spend $500 for the dewalt kit to see if it works better.
• Experiment with doing more expansions or different rotations with the expansion tool. Again, quite time consuming since it has taken hours for these things to seal.
• Buy different rings and test whether things get better.
• Buy different pipe and test whether things get better.
• Buy different manifold and test whether things get better.
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