Users who are viewing this thread

Pennstump

New Member
Messages
3
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
SoCal Coastal
Hi. Newbie here. I've searched for help on this topic all across the Internet and I couldn't find anything. So, I thought I'd ask the pros.

I have pipes at the main that sometimes violently vibrate / chatter. This seems to happen during medium to heavy flow. Here's my setup:

Labels.jpg


Water comes up on the right, into a ball valve, into the pressure regulating valve (PRV), then tees up to the house via ball valve, and down to my yard's irrigation / hose system after a dual check valve. There are pressure vacuum breakers before the sprinklers. My system does not have an expansion tank. And, yup, those are all Sharkbite connections.

When either the master shower is turned on on the second floor or the hose is run from the end of my irrigation line, the pipes near where the water enters the house start to vibrate / chatter and make a lot of noise. I have just discovered that the noise seems to be coming from behind the PRV where the main takes a 90-degree elbow and moves into my main shutoff valve and the PRV. Please see the video of the vibrating here:


and see it in more of a closeup with a focus on the the vibrations stopping and starting here:


As soon as the master shower stops or the hose is turned off, the vibrating / chattering stops. Sometimes if I open any faucet in the house, even for a second, the vibrating / chattering can stop. These vibrations can't be good, especially for the Sharkbite fittings.

I have tried slightly closing the valves, but that didn't seem to do much. I then tried to adjust the pressure bolt on the PRV and it seemed to work for when the hose was on. I tightened the bolt until the vibrating stopped, but then when the irrigation kicked on (aka more water was flowing) it starting vibrating again. So, I adjusted it again and this setting only stopped the vibrating when both the hose and irrigation were on. It no longer stopped the vibrations for just the hose. I found something else by experimenting: when I turn off the valve to the house, there are no vibrations at all.

I would have to guess that the pressure regulator valve is causing this, but maybe it has to do with the dual check valve clogging up or failing. I can't tell if this qualifies as water hammer. How can I stop this from happening, replace the PRV? Add an expansion tank? Remove the dual check valve? Better secure the pipes in the wall?

Any help would be greatly appreciated! My next step on my own will be to replace the small Sharkbite PRV with a Zurn 70XL and see what happens, if I don't get a better recommendation. Or maybe I'll remove the guts of the dual check valve to see if it's limiting flow. Thanks in advance!
 

Terry

The Plumbing Wizard
Staff member
Messages
29,942
Reaction score
3,462
Points
113
Location
Bothell, Washington
Website
terrylove.com
I have had PRV's make noises like that. A rebuild or replacement may fix that. At least it looks to be a double union check to make it easier for replacement.

I also noticed that the irrigation doesn't have the proper back flow device. Those are normally a vacuum breaker at the highest point, or a reduced pressure backflow device that gets inspected yearly.
 

James Henry

In the Trades
Messages
1,581
Reaction score
404
Points
83
Location
Billings, Montana.
PRV's have delicate internal parts, any dirt that gets inside them can ruin them. Get the make, model and size of the tag and install a new one.
 

Pennstump

New Member
Messages
3
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
SoCal Coastal
I have had PRV's make noises like that. A rebuild or replacement may fix that. At least it looks to be a double union check to make it easier for replacement.

I also noticed that the irrigation doesn't have the proper back flow device. Those are normally a vacuum breaker at the highest point, or a reduced pressure backflow device that gets inspected yearly.
Thank you. There are pressure vacuum breakers before the 2 rows of sprinkler valves.

Any chance this could be due to flow rate, like maybe this PRV can't handle the amount of water? I'm asking to see if I should just replace in kind or go for a higher flow PRV.
 

Pennstump

New Member
Messages
3
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
SoCal Coastal
I ended up replacing the Sharkbite PRV with the same make and model and the chatter continued. I then returned that new Sharkbite PRV and replaced it with a larger Zurn 70XL and the vibration and chatter instantly stopped. So, either both Sharkbites were defective / contaminated or it was a flow rate issue. The Zurn can handle almost twice as many GPMs than the Sharkbite, even though both are 3/4".
 

John Gayewski

In the Trades
Messages
4,476
Reaction score
1,412
Points
113
Location
Iowa
I ended up replacing the Sharkbite PRV with the same make and model and the chatter continued. I then returned that new Sharkbite PRV and replaced it with a larger Zurn 70XL and the vibration and chatter instantly stopped. So, either both Sharkbites were defective / contaminated or it was a flow rate issue. The Zurn can handle almost twice as many GPMs than the Sharkbite, even though both are 3/4".
My first time looking at this, yes prvs are only rated for certain flow rates. Generally a bigger one like that is a pretty high flow rate though.
 

Martinez838

New Member
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Florida
So, doing a ton of service I’ve seen this a lot.
The white piece in the center of the shark bite is the problem 99% of the time for vibration.
It is only intended for use on uponor piping/pex piping.
Any other piping it’s supposed to be removed. Simply use a needle nose or anything in your arsenal and remove the white insert.

This piece will flap around inside any other piping and vibrate the heck away. Seen it plenty of times.

Best of luck hope it helps
Again it’s only use is for UPONOR AND PEX PIPING. Remove for copper, cpvc etc.
 

Attachments

  • 94CA7EB5-274A-4303-A838-2ECCAD08B6C2.jpeg
    94CA7EB5-274A-4303-A838-2ECCAD08B6C2.jpeg
    44.3 KB · Views: 79
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks