Dirty arm drop! A dance move?

[Jon Herrington]

Good Afternoon everyone! I bought my house in almost exactly 3 years ago today. When I got it inspected, the inspector told me the kitchen sink wasn't plumbed correctly, but it worked so I didnt pay any attention to it.

Three years later I want it to work RIGHT. Whenever I use the garage disposal, water shoots out of thr other sink drain. Then, the water also stinks if it has sat for a while.

I've come to realize when the previous owners remodeled, the sink they installed was too deep for the dirty arm. I want to lower it and just want to see if there were any things I should know or look out for before getting further into this project.

Finally, it looks like there's a cleanout that runs in line with the vent from the roof.

When looking at the sink from the countertop, the gold ruler is where the vent and clean out is.

Is this worth my time to do? I'm pretty competent when it comes to DIY, although my plumbing experience is lacking!

The disposer is pushing water into the bottom of the baffle tee instead of the top or side inlet.
It's running backwards.

 

[Reach4]

That is a weird setup there. How about a picture from the far left back corner under the sink. Show the disposal and the drain hole into the wall.

How hard this is depends. If that horizontal pipe inside the rectangular hole by the outlet is the drain, that's a problem. You would need a new lower drain pipe. Is there a crawl space under there?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jon Herrington]

That is a weird setup there. How about a picture from the far left back corner under the sink. Show the disposal and the drain hole into the wall.

How hard this is depends. If that horizontal pipe inside the rectangular hole by the outlet is the drain, that's a problem. You would need a new lower drain pipe. Is there a crawl space under there?

Hi there! That is the drain. I havent done any more wall opening yet, but when I ran the sink, I could see the water coming out of the cleanout on the outside of the house. The cleanout from the inside of the house is where the gold ruler is on the counter. So without opening further, it looks like it goes into the wall where I have cut, then makes a left hand turn another 33 inches and connects with the vent.

Let me know if these pictures help you any!

I understand I would have to drill through the studs. Getting behind the sink wouldn't be a big deal, once it turns left into the wall it goes behind the cabinents, which doesn't sound like a *great* time.

 

[Jon Herrington]

That is a weird setup there. How about a picture from the far left back corner under the sink. Show the disposal and the drain hole into the wall.

How hard this is depends. If that horizontal pipe inside the rectangular hole by the outlet is the drain, that's a problem. You would need a new lower drain pipe. Is there a crawl space under there?

Also, no crawl space.

 

[Jeff H Young]

Horrible Horrible plumbing. The wall needs opened up and a new pipe run way lower . all the way over to where the ruler is im guessing

 

[Reach4]

Jeff is right. I think you will need to lower this pipe until the pipe turns down. Either that, or you should be rid of the disposal.

Do you think the pipe turns down where the tip of the yellow arrow is, or does the drain pipe stay horizontal around the corner over to maybe under the gold ruler on the counter.

Tell us about the cleanout under the gold ruler. Is that in the wall under the counter? How high is that cleanout above the floor? Is that a masonry wall, and is the picture oriented with up at the top?

But if you want to continue as it was before it clogged, you could add a cleanout in the horizontal on the way to the cut-out wall, possibly under the sink to the left of the cold stop valve.

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

Even if you got rid of the disposer there isn't enough drop to get that hooked up properly.

If as I think Reach4 is eluding to, your vertical drain is where the ruler is, that is where you would likely need to start lowering the drain. And if so, tearing out the backs of cabinets is not ideal. If it were me and assuming the vertical drain is as you describe at the ruler. I would open up the back of the cabinet to expose and locate that drain. Figure out the height you need to connect your drain setup with disposer and calculate your drop to the vertical to cut in a tee. Maybe add an inch so that if you fudge up somewhere you're lower than needed rather than higher. Tokeep from having to rip out an enormous amount of cabinet, I would run the first part of the drain exposed through the back of the cabinet to the pony wall, at that point I would then drill studs over to the sink. I like to stub out near, but not directly behind my disposer so that even with the disposer installed I can see directly to the drain and all the slip joints are easily reachable. Add a cleanout wye that extends above the trap, so that you can run the sink with the cleanout open if needed.

 

[Jon Herrington]

Jeff is right. I think you will need to lower this pipe until the pipe turns down. Either that, or you should be rid of the disposal.

Do you think the pipe turns down where the tip of the yellow arrow is, or does the drain pipe stay horizontal around the corner over to maybe under the gold ruler on the counter.

Tell us about the cleanout under the gold ruler. Is that in the wall under the counter? How high is that cleanout above the floor? Is that a masonry wall, and is the picture oriented with up at the top?

But if you want to continue as it was before it clogged, you could add a cleanout in the horizontal on the way to the cut-out wall, possibly under the sink to the left of the cold stop valve.

Unfortunately. Through the cutout it looks like the pipe remains horizontal. I can't see it past there as it runs through some studs.

It does look like it turns down just above the cleanout as when the sink is running, I can see the water running down.

The picture of the cleanout is from outside of my house and thenorentation of the picture is as it appears on the website. I have attached another picture. It lies directly below a vent on my roof, which has led me to believe that is where the horizontal drain arm connects.

 

[Terry]

Is this on a concrete slab or does it have a crawl space?
If on a crawl space, perhaps bringing the drain up from the bottom of the cabinet.

Or maybe go back to standard depth sinks.

 

[Reach4]

So that Tuttles Revenge plan looks like the good deal. You can have a cleanout above the new lower santee.

I wonder where your current path is vented. Does it not get vented before the gold ruler, or is it vented earlier than that.

Or maybe go back to standard depth sinks.

They have 2- and 3-bowl sinks where one bowl is shallower, to hold the disposal.

 

[Jon Herrington]

Even if you got rid of the disposer there isn't enough drop to get that hooked up properly.

If as I think Reach4 is eluding to, your vertical drain is where the ruler is, that is where you would likely need to start lowering the drain. And if so, tearing out the backs of cabinets is not ideal. If it were me and assuming the vertical drain is as you describe at the ruler. I would open up the back of the cabinet to expose and locate that drain. Figure out the height you need to connect your drain setup with disposer and calculate your drop to the vertical to cut in a tee. Maybe add an inch so that if you fudge up somewhere you're lower than needed rather than higher. Tokeep from having to rip out an enormous amount of cabinet, I would run the first part of the drain exposed through the back of the cabinet to the pony wall, at that point I would then drill studs over to the sink. I like to stub out near, but not directly behind my disposer so that even with the disposer installed I can see directly to the drain and all the slip joints are easily reachable. Add a cleanout wye that extends above the trap, so that you can run the sink with the cleanout open if needed.

Thats an incredible idea. Not sure if it changes your mind. But I've attached a picture of how my cabinents are configured. Would running it through the back of the cabinents like that be to code? I'm located in Baton Rouge. I know its not to code now, but I guess if I could get it there, I would like to. Hah! What is the figure drawn in the bottom right of the picture?

Terry, as for the regular depth sink. I've thought about that. But im pretty happy with the current layout, and don't mind spending some extra time making it work like it should.

 

[Jon Herrington]

Is this on a concrete slab or does it have a crawl space?
If on a crawl space, perhaps bringing the drain up from the bottom of the cabinet.

Or maybe go back to standard depth sinks.

Also, it is a concrete slab.

 

[Jon Herrington]

I wonder where your current path is vented. Does it not get vented before the gold ruler, or is it vented earlier than that.

It does not appear to be vented before that.

 

[Reach4]

What is the figure drawn in the bottom right of the picture?

Isometric projection... Kinda as if viewed horizontally, but somewhat elevated and simplified.

 

[Terry]

Using Tuttle's example, taking a shortcut in the corner cabinet over to the exterior wall, and where he shows a wye for a cleanout also add an AAV for venting.
Right now you're way over the distance allowed on a trap arm.

 

[WorthFlorida]

Obviously on the remodel of the kitchen someone didn't have it all together. Another clue I got was a lack of outlets on the counter top before I read your comments on the original location of the drain. The disposal & sink trap hook up is all ass backwards but you may have already realized it. Its crude set up is giving you a somewhat of a trap for the left basin. If it looks like the vent is too far from the sink you can add an AAV under the sink. The only problem running a pipe through the cabinets is if there are pull out shelving they may get in the way.

When you do get the pipe lowered, make the connection similar to this picture. Another hint is place the drain pipe off to one side, not in the center. This will allow cleanance for the pull out sprayer hose for the faucet. Good luck!

 

[Reach4]

where he shows a wye for a cleanout

I was wondering what that was.

Right now you're way over the distance allowed on a trap arm.

With IPC, that would be 6 ft with a 1.5 inch trap arm, and 8 ft with 2 inch trap arm.

It's possible that there is an existing vent just after the trap arm turns the corner.

 

[Jon Herrington]

Obviously on the remodel of the kitchen someone didn't have it all together. Another clue I got was a lack of outlets on the counter top before I read your comments on the original location of the drain. The disposal & sink trap hook up is all ass backwards but you may have already realized it. Its crude set up is giving you a somewhat of a trap for the left basin. If it looks like the vent is too far from the sink you can add an AAV under the sink. The only problem running a pipe through the cabinets is if there are pull out shelving they may get in the way.

When you do get the pipe lowered, make the connection similar to this picture. Another hint is place the drain pipe off to one side, not in the center. This will allow cleanance for the pull out sprayer hose for the faucet. Good luck!
Excellent. I will start prepping today.

View attachment 66393

There's an outlet on the wall that isnt

I was wondering what that was.

With IPC, that would be 6 ft with a 1.5 inch trap arm, and 8 ft with 2 inch trap arm.

It's possible that there is an existing vent just after the trap arm turns the corner.

I was wondering what that was.

With IPC, that would be 6 ft with a 1.5 inch trap arm, and 8 ft with 2 inch trap arm.

It's possible that there is an existing vent just after the trap arm turns the corner.

I will measure to see how long, I would bet its greater than 6 feet though. Does someone have a picture of a sink drain with an aav and a cleanout after the p trap?

I found this picture, would the wye just go between the AAV and the wall?

 

[Reach4]

AAV could go various places. It could be in the pony wall.

Your new arrangement for the disposal drain may involve converting to a straight discharged tube instead of the current curved discharge tube.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/install-garbage-disposal-in-double-sink.1736/

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/kitchen-island-plumbing-sewage-smell.70489/ shows an AAV coming out of a wall, but it would be better if that came out at 45 degrees.

 

[Jon Herrington]

AAV could go various places. It could be in the pony wall.

Your new arrangement for the disposal drain may involve converting to a straight discharged tube instead of the current curved discharge tube.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/install-garbage-disposal-in-double-sink.1736/

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/kitchen-island-plumbing-sewage-smell.70489/ shows an AAV coming out of a wall, but it would be better if that came out at 45 degrees.

I picked up a straight discharge tube setup from home depot a while back when I went to fix this the first time before I realized I had a bigger problem than under the sink setup.

I'll snap some pictures when I get home.

I think I've got everything figured out except for two things.

I've seen pictures of drain pipes coming out of the wall at a 90 degree angle to the wall. And some coming out of the wall at 45 degrees. (Under the sink setups) Is there any drawback to having either of these setups? Why would I use a 45 degree angle waste pipe?

Second, when I tie my new dirty arm drain to the vertical vent/drain tube do I use a sanitary T there, or a wye?