Well Pump Breaker Intermittently Trips

[Reach4]

I tried testing it with 40/60 switch and then tried putting the old 30/50 switch in. It keeps tripping within two seconds or so.

I’m guessing the pump is shot and is trying to draw more current because it’s seized up?

I think you are saying that the breaker trips when using either switch.

Drawing more current would trip the overload in the motor. I think you have a short in the wire or motor.

Turn off the breaker.
To test for a short to a ground, you could (optionally)lift both #2 and #3 wires, and measure the resistance of wire 2 to a ground should be more than 100000 ohms normally, although it would have to much much lower to trip a breaker.

Actually, with the breaker open, you should be able to leave wires 2 and 3 on their terminals and test the resistance to ground.

 

[FarmerTyson]

Drawing more current would trip the overload in the motor. I think you have a short in the wire or motor.

I tried disconnecting the wires at the j-box at the well head and flipping the breaker. It didn’t trip and I had 240v across the power wires and 120v between the power and ground. Is it safe to assume that there isn’t any short in the wire leading from the switch to the pump?

I just called a guy and they’re saying I probably have galvanized pipe 665ft down because it’s only a 2gpm yield. I have a scary suspicion this may cost me a fortune.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Valveman]

Sounds like you are good to the J box. The problem will be below that, and yes pulling 665' of galv isn't going to be cheap.

 

[FarmerTyson]

I think you are saying that the breaker trips when using either switch.

Turn off the breaker.
To test for a short to a ground, you could (optionally)lift both #2 and #3 wires, and measure the resistance of wire 2 to a ground should be more than 100000 ohms normally, although it would have to much much lower to trip a breaker.

Actually, with the breaker open, you should be able to leave wires 2 and 3 on their terminals and test the resistance to ground.

Yep, both switches are now tripping the breaker.

I removed and disconnected the switches. When I test between my black (power) and red (power) I measure 3 ohms. When I go from any power wire to ground I get OL.. I’m assuming that means there’s no continuity.

I would kind of expect the above, right?

 

[FarmerTyson]

Sounds like you are good to the J box. The problem will be below that, and yes pulling 665' of galv isn't going to be cheap.

Is it coincidental that this is happening or is it something I did? Could the pump have been on its last leg and trying to get to the higher PSI finally pushed it over the edge?

I’m just so upset over his because the guy was saying he may need to order a pump and it could be several days. One, I don’t have the money for this, but more importantly I need to worry about my family and horses.

I just don’t know how a new pressure tank and switch could’ve caused this

 

[Reach4]

I just don’t know how a new pressure tank and switch could’ve caused this

What motivated you to make those changes? There may have been last-leg symptoms that got you changing things.

Some things are worth borrowing for, like this. Usually borrowing money to buy a new car is not.

Note the length of pipe. Record the info from both nameplates on the old pump.

 

[FarmerTyson]

What motivated you to make those changes? There may have been last-leg symptoms that got you changing things.

Some things are worth borrowing for, like this. Usually borrowing money to buy a new car is not.

Note the length of pipe. Record the info from both nameplates on the old pump.

Yep, I’m going to go with that ! I was new to well systems and called a company. I needed to re-bed the pH neutralizer and he said the tank was water logged. They wanted a ton of money for it. So I did months worth of research, made my own assessments and it definitely needed to be replaced. Wanted a little higher water pressure so went with the 40/60. Oh well. Maybe it was on the way out the door anyways!

I hear ya, I drive a 2007 envoy and 2004 dodge still! Maybe I should just stick to turning wrenches and not this plumbing stuff.

Will definitely take note of everything! He said he’s going to stop by and take a look. Maybe he’ll find that it’s just rolled tube a couple hundred feet down. I could only hope and pray!

Thanks for all your help - and to everyone else! I learned a lot!

 

[FarmerTyson]

So just to close the loop on this thread...

The issue was the pump. The wiring was all good, but the pump had failed. Interestingly enough, the guys were saying this was their 6th pump this week that had failed due to, what they were thinking, lighting from all the storms we had.

The depth of the well was every bit of 450-500 feet deep, there was a 1 hp (unsure of the flow), and thankfully NO galvanized pipe. It was 200 test roll pipe.

We replaced it with a 1HP 5 GPM, which I thought was going to be kinda low but it seems to be pumping closer to 7-8GPM - why is that?

Also, I asked the question that I've seen so many times on here about, drum roll please, Cycle Stop Valves. They too said don't use it. They said it will sound like a jet engine? Or that it will cause (of course I can't remember the term) the pump to kind of back up if it's right at that tipping point - in my setup 55 psi. So if the pump is slowly filling the tank based off my usage and when it hits that 55 psi, it will keep flicking on and off and cause issues? Any thoughts?

To me it still seems like they make sense, but I don't have any experience. I still plan on putting it in, but I do wonder, what does happen if the pressure hangs out right at that 55 psi mark, will it cause an on/off/on/off type situation?

Again, thanks everyone for your help and input!

 

[LLigetfa]

We replaced it with a 1HP 5 GPM, which I thought was going to be kinda low but it seems to be pumping closer to 7-8GPM - why is that?

The pump performs on a curve and the 5 GPM spec is part way down the curve. Since your static level is only 39 feet, it is on the high side of the curve.

 

[Reach4]

We replaced it with a 1HP 5 GPM, which I thought was going to be kinda low but it seems to be pumping closer to 7-8GPM - why is that?

These are Goulds 5GS pumps, but other 5 gpm pumps would be similar. Note that the Depth to Water in Feet does not refer to how far down the pump is, but rather to how far down the water surface is. If you have a very high water level compared to the design area of the pump, you can get upthrust. Put that word in the search box above. The cure for that is to put a Dole valve into your path. However 8 gpm max that you see is not bad. So you probably have enough restriction to avoid upthrust.

 

[LLigetfa]

If you have a very high water level compared to the design area of the pump, you can get upthrust.

We've had this discussion before, but Cary tells me that with a CSV, the pump starts against an almost closed valve and so limits upthrust. Now, that might depend on how the CSV is configured in relation to the pressure switch setting.

Pump/tank setups that use bleeder/snifter/check valves most certainly start with almost no restriction and so more prone to upthrust. Even if not setup for airmaker, any pump with multiple check valves could induce upthrust when the upstream valve no longer holds allowing the column of water to drop creating a partial vacuum in the pipe.

 

[Reach4]

We've had this discussion before, but Cary tells me that with a CSV, the pump starts against an almost closed valve and so limits upthrust. Now, that might depend on how the CSV is configured in relation to the pressure switch setting.

Let's presume that the pressure switch is 40/60, and the CSV is set for 50. I would expect the CSV to be open when the pump starts.

If a 1 HP 5 gpm pump were restricted to 1 gpm, you might have over 275 psi at the output of the pump. So I think poly pipe could exceed the pipe rating with a 1 gpm CSV in this particular case. With a 3 gpm CSV, the pressure would be about 183.

Then you also have to be concerned with exceeding the pressure max on the CSV when the water level is high.

 

[Valveman]

Yeah it is not hard to put a large enough tank on a 5 GPM pump to limit the cycling. A 44 gallon tank holds 10 gallons of water and would give you more than one minute of run time even when the static is high and that pump is putting out 7-8 GPM. The back pressure from a CSV would be 294 PSI, which isn't that much different than the 209 PSI you will have just from the depth even without a CSV.

I would have probably use a 7 GPM, 1 HP, as it can only build 198 PSI back pressure, which would work with a CSV and regular 200 PSI pipe.

I wish you good luck as any pump man who doesn't understand the benefits of a CSV probably made a lot of other mistakes choosing and installing your pump. Not liking CSV's is just a sign the pump man doesn't understand pumps, he just thinks he does.

 

[FarmerTyson]

One last note here - thank you all again for your help through this project. It started with asking about a check valve and turned into a new tank, switch, unfortunately pump, CSV's (unfortunately my setup isn't conducive for this), and a ton of understanding. That was the main goal, but quickly came to realize that there's much more that meets the eye with well water!

I truly appreciate all your time, patience, and knowledge; I'm so happy I found this forum.

Hopefully now you won't have to hear from me! Maybe now I can shed some advice on other's questions... well, maybe best to leave it up to you guys ha!

Thanks