Indoors, you need 12 AWG for 20 amp breakers to meet the electrical code. The code has margin.
Well Pump Breaker Intermittently Trips
- Thread starter FarmerTyson
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- 40/60 switch breaker trip punp
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FarmerTyson
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Thank you for your input!
What's interesting, there was no other water demands. I took a shower, but then we weren't using any other water, outside of the wash machine and sink. Also, we've had a ton of rain here in NC, more than usual, and I've never had any issues with the well recovering - even when my gorgeous wife leaves the hose on when filling troughs haha!
I'm guessing that it's probably more than a 1/2hp pump too. The old Frank Electric box was gutted and I found a ton of old stuff - switches, drain valve, pressure relief - buried in the crawl space. My guess is that over the years, someone didn't clean up after them selves and was too lazy to remove the box after the pump was replaced. So I guess the replacement is better than the old (potentially) 1/2 HP pump.
I've attached the placard that I found by the well head. It says 2 GPM, but I think it's much higher than that.
I'm going to test this now and will let you know.
Sanity check on how I'm going to test:
I'll wait for the tank to completely fill up. I'll turn on the drain valve, measure the amount I catch until it kicks on the pump at 40 psi, turn the valve off, and time how long it takes to kick off. So lets say I capture 7 gallons of water, in 45 seconds, it would be 7/ 45=.15555 * 60 = 9.33 GPM. This all sound right? Or any suggestions on a better way?
Thanks!
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FarmerTyson
Member
So lets even say 200 feet, that's still 161 feet of water storage and using Reach's 1.234 gallons/ft, that's still 198 gallons of water!
I can't imagine any scenario where I'd be using that much water even with the well recovering.
I've got to think it's a breaker issue - fingers crossed!
Yeah just open enough water faucets so the pump cannot shut off, and do a bucket test of how much water is being let out.
FarmerTyson
Member
I believe it's 12 gauge from the box. But I think I may just keep it at the 2-pole 15 amp. I don't want to keep changing things and then never know what the cause/fix was.
Going to get my ammeter, new breaker, and measure the flow rate.
Thanks guys!!!
Yeah that's why I think it is only a couple hundred feet to the pump.
Right answer. I don't like the notation.
It would be 7/ 45 * 60 = 9.33
If you had an intermediate value, it would be 45/60=0.75
7/0.75=9.33
FarmerTyson
Member
Gotcha. So get the pressure to stabilize out by turning on water and then start filling buckets for 1 min and see how much I capture?
FarmerTyson
Member
Right on, being lazy in my typing! Basically:
9.33 GPM = ((7 gal/45 sec)*60sec/1 min)
Off to start figuring this out.
Thanks all for the help! Will report back!
FarmerTyson
Member
Ok, here's an update:
1. The pump flows between 7-7.5 gpm. I performed both methods of testing and got very similar results
2. I've replaced the breaker. I noticed on the old breaker that there was some greenish discoloration and green dust residue on one of the terminals - not sure if that matters or not, but definitely looked old and potentially worn out
3. I picked up an ammeter and recorded the following draw: for one wire (black) 8.5amps, and for the second (red) 8.2 amps; so a little over half of it's capacity
When testing the current, I noticed that the switch doesn't make as much of a convincing switch off of its contacts. Kind of hard to explain what I mean, but it seems to just ease off. I'm wondering if it's a bad switch and creating some sort of arch while slowly leaving the contacts thus creating an undesirable environment for an old breaker. Not sure if that's a thing or more me trying to justify what's going on!
I guess at this point, time will tell. I'll let the forum know after a couple of days and trying to recreate the same scenario. Once the dust settles too, I'll be dropping in the CSV as the cherry on top (and it's red too)!
Thanks again for all the input.
1. The pump flows between 7-7.5 gpm. I performed both methods of testing and got very similar results
2. I've replaced the breaker. I noticed on the old breaker that there was some greenish discoloration and green dust residue on one of the terminals - not sure if that matters or not, but definitely looked old and potentially worn out
3. I picked up an ammeter and recorded the following draw: for one wire (black) 8.5amps, and for the second (red) 8.2 amps; so a little over half of it's capacity
When testing the current, I noticed that the switch doesn't make as much of a convincing switch off of its contacts. Kind of hard to explain what I mean, but it seems to just ease off. I'm wondering if it's a bad switch and creating some sort of arch while slowly leaving the contacts thus creating an undesirable environment for an old breaker. Not sure if that's a thing or more me trying to justify what's going on!
I guess at this point, time will tell. I'll let the forum know after a couple of days and trying to recreate the same scenario. Once the dust settles too, I'll be dropping in the CSV as the cherry on top (and it's red too)!
Thanks again for all the input.
xxx
The red and black wires are probably carrying the same current. If you put your clamp around both wires at once, you should read near zero.
That would be consistent with a 1 hp pump operating lightly loaded, but more likely it could be a 3/4 inch 5 gpm pump pumping more than normal.
The red and black wires are probably carrying the same current. If you put your clamp around both wires at once, you should read near zero.
FarmerTyson
Member
Aside from connecting a hose to the boiler drain valve, I didn't have any other water running. It was pretty consistent too, from 40-60psi, there wasn't any fluctuation in the current.
I actually did that just for curiosity and noticed that it went to zero(ish), I don't remember exactly what it said, but it was very close to zero.
FarmerTyson
Member
Well guys.. I've ran the dish washer and the washing machine.. I went to run the sink and noticed I had very low pressure. I checked the breaker and it didn't trip. So I went under the house and found that the gauge was at 10psi. My non-contact tester showed voltage across all contacts and my ammeter yielded 0.03 amps for both power wires. So there's no juice whatsoever going to the pump.
What can this mean? Is this pump fried?
Voltage with the contacts bridged with no current along the pump wires can't be a good thing. I'm at a lost and am expecting the worse.
Any suggestions are welcomed, of course.
What can this mean? Is this pump fried?
Voltage with the contacts bridged with no current along the pump wires can't be a good thing. I'm at a lost and am expecting the worse.
Any suggestions are welcomed, of course.
Use a voltmeter with probes. If you have 240 across a terminal on the left side with respect to a terminal on the right side, and you don't have 240 across a different terminal on the left side with respect to a terminal on the right side, your pressure switch is bad. This presumes your pressure switch does not have a lever.
More commonly the outside two terminals are wired to the breaker box and the inner two are wired to the pump, but not nearly always.
FarmerTyson
Member
Use a voltmeter with probes. If you have 240 across a terminal on the left side with respect to a terminal on the right side, and you don't have 240 across a different terminal on the left side with respect to a terminal on the right side, your pressure switch is bad. This presumes your pressure switch does not have a lever.
More commonly the outside two terminals are wired to the breaker box and the inner two are wired to the pump, but not nearly always.
So my switch is wired this way and follows the diagram on the cover.
When I test 1 to 3 or 4, I get 245VAC. When I test 1 to 2 I get nothing.
Same thing on the other side. When I test 4 to 2 or 1, I get 245 VAC. But when I test 4-3, I get zero (well 1v but it says that no matter what).
When I test to ground, I’m getting 122volts.
What’s interesting is that when I went under the house, I got nothing. Turns out the breaker did trip. I had my wife turn it on and then it tripped shortly after that. I had her turn it back on but it didn’t trip and I was then able to perform my measurements.
I’m at a complete lost
Thank you for the late reply, btw.
What is important is that you get 240V between 2 and 3. I don't see that you tested that? Also what do you mean you got nothing under the house? Is that before or after the pressure switch?
FarmerTyson
Member
I can’t remember if I tested between 2 and 3 - which would be 240vac going to the pump. I will test that now.
Sorry, what I meant was that I didn’t get any readings on my meter, come to find out that the breaker tripped between the time I left the garage to the crawl space.
I’m going to test between the two pump contacts now. If I get nothing, what does that tell me, bad switch? If I do get voltage, is this a pump issue?
2 and 3 go to the motor. If you have 240V between 2 and 3 the motor should have power, unless the wire is broken before it goes into the well. If you have 240V between 2 and 3 then you need a clip around amp meter on one of those wires to see if the motor is getting the power.
FarmerTyson
Member
I tried testing it with 40/60 switch and then tried putting the old 30/50 switch in. It keeps tripping within two seconds or so.
I’m guessing the pump is shot and is trying to draw more current because it’s seized up?
Drawing more current would trip the overload in the motor. I think you have a short in the wire or motor.
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