Change pressure switch from 20-35 to 40-60?

[Bannerman]

The water depth is roughly 14' and I have 20' of pipe. So the distance to lift the water isn't very high.

I assume the 20' of pipe, is the two pipes leading down to the ejector assembly located down within the well. How much below the ejector is the footvalve located? As the water level after pumping for an extended time, could potentially be drawn down to the footvalve screen, that will determine the maximum pressure the pump will be capable of building while the water level is lowest.

 

[Reach4]

What do you intend to do with the added water pressure? An extra 5 to 10 psi would still be lowish for an impact sprinkler. Using a hand-held hose with nozzle? Oscillating sprinkler? Soaker hose?

A fancy word for what I suggest to set a pressure target for using the current pump is "empirical". ;-)

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Larry Schwarcz]

I assume the 20' of pipe, is the two pipes leading down to the ejector assembly located down within the well. How much below the ejector is the footvalve located? As the water level after pumping for an extended time, could potentially be drawn down to the footvalve screen, that will determine the maximum pressure the pump will be capable of building while the water level is lowest.

The ejector valve is threaded directly to the 20' of pipe and the foot valve is connected to the ejector with a 3" brass nipple. So the added length to the bottom of the pipe is maybe a foot roughly.

Thanks!
Larry.

 

[Larry Schwarcz]

What do you intend to do with the added water pressure? An extra 5 to 10 psi would still be lowish for an impact sprinkler. Using a hand-held hose with nozzle? Oscillating sprinkler? Soaker hose?

A fancy word for what I suggest to set a pressure target for using the current pump is "empirical". ;-)

We have a sprinkler system in the yard and my wife also uses a hose to hand water her many potted plants.

Thanks,
Larry.

 

[Larry Schwarcz]

Hi Everyone,

OK, I gathered some more info this morning. Some useful and some, well, maybe not as useful .

The well lining is 6" diameter steel.

One issue is the hose attached to the well for hand watering is one of those expanding hoses that needs some decent pressure just to expand and this pump doesn't seem to do it. The wife is sold on this style of hose so going to a fixed length hose is not an option.

I checked the flow at a hose bibb from city water and well water hose bibb. Not exactly a fair comparison because the house hose bibb is connected inside with 1/2" PEX and the hose bibb attached to the well is a short run of 3/4" PVC. I used the same short hose (maybe a 10' length) for both.

House water hose bibb: 75 PSI and 5 GPM flow

Well water hose bibb: 35 PSI and 10 GPM flow

Of course the well water psi depends on the pump keeping the pressure up!

I jumped the terminals in the pressure switch to check the max pressure the pump can develop and it hit 45 PSI.

I tried adjusting the pressure switch. The max pressure did go up to about 42 PSI but the cut on pressure is still just above 25 PSI. I'd like the minimum pressure to be much higher than that.

So it seems that I should really give up on this pump and get one that can really do the job.

Valveman suggested the Goulds J5SH. But, that's a pretty pricy unit.

Any suggestions on shallow or deep well pumps that can use the 40-60 switch with a good flow rate (lets say 8-10 GPM)?

- Runs on 115 VAC.
- Uses a 40-60 pressure switch.
- Flow rate at least 8 GPM
- Not too expensive. Some recommended pumps are upwards of a grand! Is a max of $500 a reasonable limit?

Thanks again for all of the great information!
Larry.

 

[Reach4]

I tried adjusting the pressure switch. The max pressure did go up to about 42 PSI but the cut on pressure is still just above 25 PSI. I'd like the minimum pressure to be much higher than that.

Loosen (CCW) the nut on the small spring to max loose.

 

[Larry Schwarcz]

Loosen (CCW) the nut on the small spring to max loose.

OK, tried that. It bumped up the cut-on pressure but only by a few PSI.

I think it's still time for me to look for a replacement that's more suited to this task.

Thanks!
Larry.

 

[Reach4]

OK, tried that. It bumped up the cut-on pressure but only by a few PSI.

I think it's still time for me to look for a replacement that's more suited to this task.

Do you have 240 volts available?

Valveman often recommends the Hallmark pumps. The specs are misleading however. They have fewer stages, so a "33 gpm" pump might put out 16 gpm at 50 psi . He often suggests the 1 HP pump where a more common, but more expensive, 1/2 HP can do the job. Seems to me that for irrigation over longer periods, efficiency could be important. For occational use, energy consumption matters less.

Also, some of the Hallmarks are bigger that normal 4 inch pumps, so you cannot use the usual 4-inch pipe to make the flow inducer.

 

[Larry Schwarcz]

Do you have 240 volts available?

Valveman often recommends the Hallmark pumps. The specs are misleading however. They have fewer stages, so a "33 gpm" pump might put out 16 gpm at 50 psi . He often suggests the 1 HP pump where a more common, but more expensive, 1/2 HP can do the job. Seems to me that for irrigation over longer periods, efficiency could be important. For occational use, energy consumption matters less.

Also, some of the Hallmarks are bigger that normal 4 inch pumps, so you cannot use the usual 4-inch pipe to make the flow inducer.

Nope, 120 VAC only. It would be a huge task to get 240 to the pump.

If possible l‘d like to stick with a 1/2 HP pump to keep the power usage the same. If necessary, maybe I should step up to a 3/4 HP pump.

Thanks again,
Larry

 

[Valveman]

Lol! I understand your problem. Had a customer set on using those expanding hoses. I rigged up a pressure gauge before and after the expanding hose. Takes about 40 PSI just to keep the hose expanded. Any 10 GPM, 1/2HP submersible will put out more than a 3/4 jet pump. Tractor supply, home depot, any of them with a plastic or SS pump head (not steel) will put out about 12 GPM at 140' of head.

 

[Larry Schwarcz]

UPDATE

I bought a Vevor submersible pump to replace my deep well pump and got it installed today. It seems to be doing OK but is cycling on/off a lot and makes a THUNK noise when turning off.

I took a short video but I can't upload it to this site so I put it on my own website here: https://www.casincat.com/FTP/Well/IMG_6919.MOV

Any suggestions on how to reduce the frequent cycling and the THUNK when it shuts off?

Thanks again everyone!
Larry.

 

[Reach4]

Cycling on and off only when you are using water, or even when not using water? If even when not using water, there is no working check valve in the pump. That would require an external check valve at the pump as some of the other Chinese pumps need.

 

[Larry Schwarcz]

Cycling on and off only when you are using water, or even when not using water? If even when not using water, there is no working check valve in the pump. That would require an external check valve at the pump as some of the other Chinese pumps need.

The cycling is only when running.

The pump does have a built-in check valve but they do say, "(an additional check valve is highly recommended)."

Should I install a second check valve at the pump or above ground? Would it hurt the pressure or flow rate?

Is this the type of valve you would suggest? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B088M38SPX/

I was talking with my neighbor and he suggested a larger (like maybe 20 gallon) tank instead of the tiny one I have now.

Thanks again,
Larry.

 

[Reach4]

The cycling is only when running.

The pump does have a built-in check valve but they do say, "(an additional check valve is highly recommended)."

Should I install a second check valve at the pump or above ground? Would it hurt the pressure or flow rate?

Is this the type of valve you would suggest? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B088M38SPX/

I was talking with my neighbor and he suggested a larger (like maybe 20 gallon) tank instead of the tiny one I have now.

Thanks again,
Larry.

Extra check valve would go at the pump, but if there is no cycling when not using water, then the built-in check valve is working.

Your air precharge in the pressure tank may be off. For a submersible pump, set the air precharge 2 psi lower than the cut-in. Precharge pressure is measured and set while the water pressure is near zero.

If you are pumping 11 gpm, you want a 44 gallon tank. If your pressure tank is not big compared to the gpm you pump, consider a CSV before the pressure tank and pressure switch. That will make the pump output adjust to the load.

 

[Larry Schwarcz]

Extra check valve would go at the pump, but if there is no cycling when not using water, then the built-in check valve is working.

Your air precharge in the pressure tank may be off. For a submersible pump, set the air precharge 2 psi lower than the cut-in. Precharge pressure is measured and set while the water pressure is near zero.

If you are pumping 11 gpm, you want a 44 gallon tank. If your pressure tank is not big compared to the gpm you pump, consider a CSV before the pressure tank and pressure switch. That will make the pump output adjust to the load.

I did set the precharge to 38 PSI so I guess I did one thing right .

OK, I'll look for a CSV. But first, what's a "CSV?"

Thanks again!
Larry.

 

[Bannerman]

But first, what's a "CSV?"

Cycle Stop Valve

CSV PK1A Kit

CSV Animation demonstrating Operation

 

[Larry Schwarcz]

UPDATE II:

I bought a Vevor submersible pump to replace my deep well pump and got it installed today. It seems to be doing OK but is cycling on/off a lot and makes a THUNK noise when turning off.

.......

Thanks again everyone!
Larry.

Well that wasn't smart of me to do .

After just a few days of use the Vevor pump has failed. I bought it directly from Vevor and they are not fast in replying! In the end I do believe they'll refund my money (if not I'll contest the charge on my credit card) but I really can't just sit around and let my yard die.

It seems obvious now that the lower cost pumps ($200 and less) really can't do a good job.

Any recommendations for brand/model submersible pumps around $500?

Here's what I have to work with:

- 6" steel well casing
- Well depth is 35 feet and water is 13 feet down (current pipes are 20 feet long)
- 115 VAC circuit.
- Would prefer 1/2 HP pump to not increase electric bill.
- Would like to get 50 PSI with 7+ GPM if possible

To reduce the cycling issue I've ordered a CSV from valveman and will replace my 2.2 gallon tank with a 4 gallon tank.

I see that Red Lion makes some units about that price. Any others suggestions? I see people really like Goulds and Grundfos but those are over a grand!

Thanks again everyone!
Larry.

 

[Bannerman]

Although more powerful than needed, since you will be utilizing a CSV, many have successfully utilized a cheap ($150) Hallmark 1HP submersible shown here: Hallmark 1HP 33 gpm

The CSV will reduce power draw when reducing the flow rate below the pump's maximum delivery rate.

As the check-valve within that pump is of lower quality, suggest threading an external spring check valve directly to the pump's outlet connection before attaching the drop pipe.

As your well casing is 6" diameter, utilizing a flow inducer will extend the pump's lifespan as the inducer will ensure there will be cooling water flow passing over the pump's electric motor for the entire time the pump is operating.

Building a flow inducer is easily accomplished as shown in the photo below.

 

[Reach4]

A 1 HP pump will take a lot more power than a 1/2 HP pump.

I suspect many avoid the Hallmark MA0343X-4-115 because
1. it has too few stages to develop 60 psi if there is any significant lift, and people go to 1 hp to develop the pressure that a normal 1/2 hp pump can develop. Larry is not lifting much and is not needing the pressure switch adjusted to 40/60 psi.

2. It is over-sized to fit into a 4 inch casing. This may make it harder to fit a flow inducer. I suspect D2729 pipe would fit, but not sure. https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/flow-inducer-sleeve.95740/#post-688352 https://www.homedepot.com/p/JM-EAGLE-4-in-x-10-ft-PVC-D2729-Sewer-and-Drain-Pipe-1610/202280933

3. I am not sure if there is any other downside.

Like the other Hallmark pumps, I expect it does not have a reliable check valve, and needs an external check valve. https://www.amazon.com/Hallmark-Industries-MA0343X-4-Submersible-Stainless/dp/B00NTT2JSU and there is an optional 4-year protection plan.

 

[Larry Schwarcz]

Any recommendations for brand/model submersible pumps around $500?

Here's what I have to work with:

- 6" steel well casing
- Well depth is 35 feet and water is 13 feet down (current pipes are 20 feet long)
- 115 VAC circuit.
- Would prefer 1/2 HP pump to not increase electric bill.
- Would like to get 50 PSI with 7+ GPM if possible

I've been poking around the web and keep seeing brands like Grundfos and Goulds but they are double what I'd like to pay.

Any thoughts on Red Lion or one of the brands from Pentair like Berkeley, Flotec, Meyers (any others), etc.?

Thanks again!
Larry.