Uponer Pex-A for Repipe

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wwhitney

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I'm telling you it's not, and it's common.
FWIW, sounds like JohnCT is specifically referring to that picture he posted, which is of some white pex that has never been installed but has yellowed areas and spots. While you mentioned iron deposits and other things that would show up in pex that is in service.

Cheers, Wayne
 

Jeff H Young

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You're telling me the yellow is not in the resin or the resin turning yellow is not bad?

John
Johnct I was just wondering and maybe it sounds obvious but does manufacture accept that any yellowing of pipe is defective or shouldnt be used? or undisputingly bad ? Id be nervous with it but wondering whats out there from manufacture or if anyone else knows Uponor public opinion oin such pipe
 

JohnCT

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Johnct I was just wondering and maybe it sounds obvious but does manufacture accept that any yellowing of pipe is defective or shouldnt be used? or undisputingly bad ? Id be nervous with it but wondering whats out there from manufacture or if anyone else knows Uponor public opinion oin such pipe

I honestly don't know Jeff - I'm making assumptions based on observation because that's all we have to go on.

What I do know is that all the Uponor failures I've seen (on line) that have had cracks, splits, and leaks have had one thing in common - they've all showed significant yellowing, and that includes the red and blue pipes. I've never seen an example of a leaking Uponor pipe that wasn't yellowed, as if it was chemically burned or perhaps burned by UV light exposure in storage or maybe exposed to sunlight in open frame construction for some time.

I think the guy that originally posted the picture of the roll of uninstalled white Uponor that showed yellowing said he contacted Uponor about it and they said it was fine to use.. Maybe it is, and if it is, then it's been a coincidence that 100% of the examples I've seen have been yellowed. Seems like lottery odds to me.

So my personal opinion is that I would not use any yellowed PEX A and if I saw yellowing in my house PEX, I would be concerned about what's behind the walls.

John
 

Jeff H Young

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I honestly don't know Jeff - I'm making assumptions based on observation because that's all we have to go on.

What I do know is that all the Uponor failures I've seen (on line) that have had cracks, splits, and leaks have had one thing in common - they've all showed significant yellowing, and that includes the red and blue pipes. I've never seen an example of a leaking Uponor pipe that wasn't yellowed, as if it was chemically burned or perhaps burned by UV light exposure in storage or maybe exposed to sunlight in open frame construction for some time.

I think the guy that originally posted the picture of the roll of uninstalled white Uponor that showed yellowing said he contacted Uponor about it and they said it was fine to use.. Maybe it is, and if it is, then it's been a coincidence that 100% of the examples I've seen have been yellowed. Seems like lottery odds to me.

So my personal opinion is that I would not use any yellowed PEX A and if I saw yellowing in my house PEX, I would be concerned about what's behind the walls.

John
Id be concerned too if i found yellow pex. but dont know if it should be all torn out if a leak hasent occured. ive never encountered a pex leak personally other than damaged or poor installation only yellow Ive seen is internet pics
 

John Gayewski

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You're telling me the yellow is not in the resin or the resin turning yellow is not bad?

John
I'm telling you I see ALL BRANDS of pex a pipe turning yellow very commonly and not failing for years. I'm also not pretending to be a chemist.

I have crumbled PEX a in my hands that was perfectly White/ opaque
 

John Gayewski

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FWIW, sounds like JohnCT is specifically referring to that picture he posted, which is of some white pex that has never been installed but has yellowed areas and spots. While you mentioned iron deposits and other things that would show up in pex that is in service.

Cheers, Wayne

Post #37.
 

John Gayewski

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Part nobody considers is " undetermined". There are instances of copper pipe failing with no chemical reason why it should or at least not ones that were never detected by experts in the field. Uponor could have failures for reasons that they have not yet discovered. Abuses they haven't thought of, maybe not all forms of UV degradation are able to be figured out in reverse, maybe someone had grit in their expansion tool, maybe other light waves can cause degradation and.they just haven't studied it. It's silly to make assumptions based on something bupin or has not said because they are really the only ones who study it enough to actually know.
 
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Jeff H Young

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Part nobody considers is " undetermined". There are instances of copper pipe failing with no chemical reason why it should or at least not ones that were never detected by experts in the field. Uponor could have failures for reasons that they have not yet discovered. Abuses they haven't thought of maybe not all forms of UV degradation are able to be figured out in reverse maybe other light waves can cause degradation and human or just hasn't studied it. It's silly to make assumptions based on something bupin or has not said because they are really the only ones who study it enough to actually know.
I concider that they may not have known the cause . but also dont expect that they would tell us everything nor do I belive that not telling us everything is not nessesarily wrong depends on a lot of things.
 

JohnCT

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Part nobody considers is " undetermined". There are instances of copper pipe failing with no chemical reason why it should or at least not ones that were never detected by experts in the field. Uponor could have failures for reasons that they have not yet discovered. Abuses they haven't thought of, maybe not all forms of UV degradation are able to be figured out in reverse, maybe someone had grit in their expansion tool, maybe other light waves can cause degradation and.they just haven't studied it. It's silly to make assumptions based on something bupin or has not said because they are really the only ones who study it enough to actually know.


I agree except for grit in the expansion tool as a cause because the leaks that have been documented have occurred anywhere and everywhere on the pipe, not just the expansions.

The other thing is that most people with Uponor never have a leak, but when the very few that do get one leak, they get dozens at a shot, so *something* is going on.

I wonder if storage or other mishandling of the pipe isn't the primary failure instead of batch issues, either sitting in the back of a pickup, in a warehouse with thousands of watts of fluorescent lighting above the rolls of clear wrapped pipe, or new construction where pipe is exposed to sunlight for a period of time before enclosure happens.

I just wish we knew one way or the other.

John
 

Jeff H Young

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yep sits out in sun by trades . sits in the rack at big box under lights Also if you belive flow guard gives fair info on PEX (since they manufacture CPVC) which I think everyone has an ax to grind and dont belive what a cpvc seller says about the competetion. I think a fair amont of mis info out there on plumbing product
 

JohnCT

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Don't know about Uponer but the Zurn that I buy in 20' sticks comes in black plastic so it's not exposed to UV. I see plenty of PEX on the back of plumbers trucks and at sellers just out in the open under lights and sun.

And *that* might be the whole problem right there..

John
 

TexMexPlumbing

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In my experience, most problems with PEX A piping stem from the recir line not being under 2ft/sec. Yellowing and cracking ensues. For a mere 1K you can get a tool from Keyonce that will test two pipe sizes 1/2 and 3/4 or 1 and 11/4 by strapping on a sensor.
 

JohnCT

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In my experience, most problems with PEX A piping stem from the recir line not being under 2ft/sec. Yellowing and cracking ensues. For a mere 1K you can get a tool from Keyonce that will test two pipe sizes 1/2 and 3/4 or 1 and 11/4 by strapping on a sensor.

That could be a big factor, but wouldn't explain the failures on the cold water side however.

John
 

Slomoola

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So one might say if you buy any PEX, should be wrapped in a black covering to eliminate UV while stored slash transported. Wondered why all PEX makers don't do this? Most all the PEX at Home Depot is naked to the eye if I recall.
 

Jeff H Young

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So one might say if you buy any PEX, should be wrapped in a black covering to eliminate UV while stored slash transported. Wondered why all PEX makers don't do this? Most all the PEX at Home Depot is naked to the eye if I recall.
One might say that but I think they would be wrong. manufacture says 1 month exposure on the white 6 month red and blue there may be differant specs that have been updated
 

JohnCT

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One might say that but I think they would be wrong. manufacture says 1 month exposure on the white 6 month red and blue there may be differant specs that have been updated

The way I see this is that the exposure time isn't a binary thing - if you're at say 25 days exposure you've done no damage but at 32 days you've got garbage. It seems to me that any UV exposure will take life out of the pipe at the far end. 30 days is a short window and tells me that any UV exposure is bad.

I agree that all PEX should be UV protected both at the manufacturing facility, the distributor, the local store, and during and after installation. Even the big box stores have bright LED lighting which puts out a surprising amount of UV light. Probably the safest way to buy PEX is in straight lengths as long as it's boxed, particularly type A.

I wonder how much PEX was stored outside at the plumber contractors or in the back of a pickup truck, and wonder if that might explain the relatively small amount of PEX that fails overall but would also account for the many leaks that seem to occur all at the same location!

John
 

Slomoola

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Keep PEX covered. Insulated even better which we all should be doing anyway. Hot and cold I wrap them both up like a newborn.
 
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