Why can't I wrap my head around the difference in a 10", 12", or 14" rough-in toilet?

[BelowNovice]

I truly hate to create another thread like this, and I promise I have tried researching already on my own.

The center of my toilet flange is 15" from the finished wall in my bathroom. I replaced the toilet about 5 years ago and had no clue about rough-in sizes, so I grabbed any old toilet off the shelf from the big box stores. Well, after installing I noticed the whole thing was off the wall several inches and looked ridiculous and also took up space in my very small bathroom. That's when I realized I picked the wrong size.

It appears from my research that a 15" rough-in does not or has never existed. So am I correct in thinking a 14" would be the best choice for me?

Issue #2 for me is I need a toilet that will not get clogged...and after reading on here, the Caroma seems to be the top choice because of the 3" or 4" trap. I also saw that we may be able to get away with a Kohler Highline with the "Pressure Lite" flushing technology. It seems that the box stores only have 12" rough-in.

I suppose my question is; What is a good website to order a toilet from?

 

[John Gayewski]

Yes a14" rough in. Your roughed in for a15", but like you said they don't exist.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jadnashua]

Unless you're willing to try to move the toilet flange, get as close as you can get, and that's a 14" RI toilet. Note, depending on the toilet, that may just come with a deeper tank, leaving the bowl sticking further out, but solves some of the space behind issues. A Toto toilet that uses their UniFit adapter (not compatible with other brands) uses the identical toilet and moves the toilet so it stays the same distance from the wall because of the adapter.

THey may have put it there from being sloppy, or there's a joist in the way. You MIGHT be able to use an offset flange if you can access beneath the floor to move the existing one back towards the wall some, or maybe move the whole pipe if it's worth it to you. Since you may have a new floor in, that probably isn't a viable option at this point, but may work if you want to change the floor.

 

[Terry]

Caroma makes bowls that are 12" and 10"
The Kohler pressure assist comes in 12"
Like Jim mentioned above, TOTO makes bowls that come as 12" but can convert to 14" with the Unifit adapter.
The TOTO Vespin II would be 30-1/4" to the end of bowl on a 15" rough with the adapter. It also moves the sitting position 2" closer to the wall.

The Kohler Betello™ Comfort Height™ toilet also has a 14" adapter option.

The gravity Highline would be 33-1/2" to the end of the bowl on a 15" rough.

30-1/4" from wall to end of bowl on a 15" Rough
TOTO Vespin CST474CEFG

 

[Reach4]

Consider a Vespin II with a 14 inch Unifit. It is the least expensive of the Unifit toilets, and it sticks out not too much. There are other Unifit toilets, and you may like one of those better than Vespin II.

What I did:
Initially, using the bolt method, I thought I had a 13-7/16 rough.

http://www.terrylove.com/forums/ind...baseboard-and-shoe-molding.58080/#post-428138

http://www.terrylove.com/forums/ind...nifit-or-stick-with-the-12.59681/#post-442544

showed what I did... my rough was closer to 13 inches.

It turned out that my rough was less than I initially thought based on external bolt measurements. The bolts were not in long slots which would have provided some easy adjustability; they were in side slots. The bolts were not the exact same distance to the wall.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/toilet-rough-in-dilemma.89675/#post-643625

has marked-up unifit photo showing the concept. The drywall screws (green arrows) would not have been necessary. I do overkill at times.

So how does this apply to you? I used a 12 inch Unifit adapter on approximately a 13 ft rough-in. You could do something similar by using a 14 inch unifit on a 15 inch rough-in.

 

[Jadnashua]

The outlet of most toilets is in the order of 2-1/8" although a few are larger (typically the largest is from Caroma). The smallest waste pipe for a toilet is supposed to be 3", so you have a little bit of fudge room about how you center the toilet on the flange. That can gain you maybe up to 3/8" or so. Combine that with a 14" rough-in, and you'll minimize the projection into the room if you go with a toilet like the Vespin II. I have a Vespin and a Carlyle in my place, and they've been workhorses for decades now on the oldest one. Replace the flapper valve and the seal cap in the fill valve on occasion, but other than that, work fine. Toto now uses a few different internal parts, so a new one might take different parts.

 

[BelowNovice]

Caroma makes bowls that are 12" and 10"
The Kohler pressure assist comes in 12"
Like Jim mentioned above, TOTO makes bowls that come as 12" but can convert to 14" with the Unifit adapter.
The TOTO Vespin II would be 30-1/4" to the end of bowl on a 15" rough with the adapter.

The Kohler Betello™ Comfort Height™ toilet also has a 14" adapter option.

The gravity Highline would be 33-1/2" to the end of the bowl on a 15" rough.

So it sounds like Caroma and The Highline are out of the picture for me unfortunately. When you say 33-1/2" to the end of the bowl, does that mean from the finished wall to the tip of the bowl?

Unfortunately I am unable to relocate the flange because there is a joist in the way

I'm a little leery about using an adapter because we have issues of constant clogging, I'm not sure that will help the situation.

I am thinking that I will go for aesthetics over functionality and get a toilet that fits closer to the wall. Our bathroom is very small (34ish sq feet including the tub space)

With that being said, can you guys recommend me a 15" that would give me the best shot at not clogging?
Should we go with the round over elongated to make it fit better?

 

[wwhitney]

Unfortunately I am unable to relocate the flange because there is a joist in the way

How about a picture of the geometry? Have you considered relocating it to be a 10" rough-in? Moving it 5" may be easier than moving it 3".

Cheers, Wayne

 

[BelowNovice]

How about a picture of the geometry? Have you considered relocating it to be a 10" rough-in? Moving it 5" may be easier than moving it 3".

Cheers, Wayne

I actually had not thought about that. I would definitely need to hire a plumber for that as that is out of my scope of skills.

After going to the local plumbing supply store and talking with them and getting some measurements, I think I need to stick with a 14" rough in...a 12" rough in has the toilet sticking way off the finished wall. I would rather use a plunger once a week instead of looking at the gap daily.

Edit: I realize my tape measure is not flush against the wall, I was measuring toilet sizes and forgot to move it back for this photo.

If I had to narrow it down to 14" RI and it had to be round, what would be my best bet for a toilet with the most powerful flush/least likely to clog?

 

[wwhitney]

Was asking for a picture of the joists and closet bend / WC fixture drain to see how hard it would be to move the closet flange.

What's the measurement from the wall on the left to the center of the closet flange?

Cheers, Wayne

 

[BelowNovice]

Was asking for a picture of the joists and closet bend / WC fixture drain to see how hard it would be to move the closet flange.

What's the measurement from the wall on the left to the center of the closet flange?

Cheers, Wayne

I dont think there is room to move the flange back because of the location of the joist. Unfortunately I cannot get a measurement from the left wall to center of flange right now.

 

[John Gayewski]

I actually had not thought about that. I would definitely need to hire a plumber for that as that is out of my scope of skills.

After going to the local plumbing supply store and talking with them and getting some measurements, I think I need to stick with a 14" rough in...a 12" rough in has the toilet sticking way off the finished wall. I would rather use a plunger once a week instead of looking at the gap daily.

Edit: I realize my tape measure is not flush against the wall, I was measuring toilet sizes and forgot to move it back for this photo.

If I had to narrow it down to 14" RI and it had to be round, what would be my best bet for a toilet with the most powerful flush/least likely to clog?

A pressure assist tank helps break things up.

 

[BelowNovice]

A pressure assist tank helps break things up.

I cannot find a pressure assist in a 14" rough in though.
What do you think about this one here?

On a 15" rough, the end of bowl would be 31-3/8" from finished wall.

Round front gravity bowl

 

[wwhitney]

I dont think there is room to move the flange back because of the location of the joist.

The way you've drawn it it would certainly possible to move the flange back. Worst case you could use a 45 degree closet flange to clear the joist. And if the joist is solid sawn, as a last resort it would be OK to notch it just a little, like under 1" in depth.

Unfortunately I cannot get a measurement from the left wall to center of flange right now.

Just wondering if you have the necessary 15" from side wall to WC flange center. If it's less, particularly if it's 12" or 14", then the rough layout would appear to have been done for having the WC rotated 90 degrees from your drawing. And if it's less, you definitely need to move the closet flange.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[BelowNovice]

So, uhhh, what is the best plunger on the market these days....

 

[WorthFlorida]

....If I had to narrow it down to 14" RI and it had to be round, what would be my best bet for a toilet with the most powerful flush/least likely to clog?

When the 1.6 gal toilets first came out in the 1990's, most of the USA made toilets had flush issues. Most tried to use the existing bowls and flush mechanisms and never adapted well. It didn't work very well and there is still a lot of stigma about low water volume toilets. I only have three 12" rough in's, two are Toto Drake II (2016) and one Briggs, made in 2007. Never had a problem. Kohler and American Standard sold in the big box stores are very good. My last home I had two Kohler's and my son has a new American Standard. No issues at all. Occasionally some will post that a family member has very hard stools and do run into flush performance problems.

 

[Terry]

I have the Vespin in my main bath. It works very well. I prefer that trapway over the Kohler Wellworth trapway.
But pretty much anything you get is going to work better than what you're pulling out. You never did mention what you have had the problems with.

 

[BelowNovice]

I have the Vespin in my main bath. It works very well. I prefer that trapway over the Kohler Wellworth trapway.
But pretty much anything you get is going to work better than what you're pulling out. You never did mention what you have had the problems with.

I replaced the old 1970s toilet about 5 years ago with something I grabbed from big box, i still have it in my garage but i am unable to locate what make or model I have

 

[Terry]

I replaced the old 1970s toilet about 5 years ago with something i grabbed from big box, i still have it in my garage but i am unable to locate what make or model I have

A picture would tell us. Often they have the part number inside the tank.
Side view of the trapway too. I pull a lot of homecenter toilets. I have sold and installed thousands of toilets that I can recommend, and my repeat business is great.

 

[BelowNovice]

A picture would tell us. Often they have the part number inside the tank.
Side view of the trapway too. I pull a lot of homecenter toilets. I have sold and installed thousands of toilets that I can recommend, and my repeat business is great.