Weeping tile inlets to sump pit are sealed...

[Gary Martinson]

Hi, noob DIYer in NE Wisconsin here. I'm building my basement and as I'm going through I'm finding various issues. The latest is the sump pump. I had never heard it run, so I opened the sealed pit and it was bone dry, even after a bunch of rain over a week or so. I poured water in and, sure enough, the sump pump was dead. I did a bit more investigating and found that they put caps inside the weeping tile inlets, about six inches inside the inlets. I've purchased a new sump pump, but I need to figure out what to do about the inlets before I install that.

My "brilliant" idea was to drill 1" holes in the caps, put some large toggle bolts in there and try to yank the caps out. I believe the caps are plastic, but my drill bit didn't want to get all the way through the first cap.

Everyone I've spoken to (plumbers, building inspectors, home inspectors) has indicated the weeping tile inlets should NOT be sealed, which makes sense to me. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated before I have to blow loads of $$$ on a real plumber.

Thanks in advance!
Gary

 

[Reach4]

The perimeter drain tiles, outside off the foundation, would have little holes over the length. That would be covered with something to stop dirt from coming in. The water around tiles would come in through fine gravel. Is that the kind of piping you are describing?

If you have solid PVC pipe at the bottom of a trench in gravel, I would make the little holes with a drill. I would think 3/16 holes. Lay a covering that will stop dirt. Then more gravel.

Are the caps going to be buried? If so, I think those should stay blocked to keep dirt out. I would consider extending the ends above ground and putting a cleanout in place. I wish I had that.

I am not a pro. Others may well have a better suggestion. I suggest pictures to describe your situation.

 

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[Jadnashua]

It sounds like the inlets to your sump has the pipes blocked?

This will prevent any water under the slab from making its way into the pit, and make it useless. But, depending on the soil composition, the grading away from the house, and the height of the water table, there may be no water to flow into the sump pit.

Another thought is that they may have a radon problem, and sealing the inlet pipes was thought to be a good idea. There are almost always some cracks in the slab, and it would just redirect it there. If you haven't done one, I suggest you pick up a radon test kit...HD and lots of hardware stores along with on-line sources that aren't expensive.

Not sure how they'd glue in a plug that's recessed. They're designed to go into the end of a pipe, not be slid down it some distance.

I'd consider trying your thought, but I'd also just consider using a hole saw to cut most of it out. They could have packed in some mortar, and a normal one would bog down quickly.

 

[Cacher_Chick]

Depending on the soils, elevations, etc., some houses don't have any water issues and have no need for a sump at all, but they are built with the system in place because the builder is only there for days/weeks and does not know.

There may be something there that you are seeing and not understanding. Are the footing drains clay tile, PVC, or ?? Are there weep holes in the basin?

You stated that you are "building" a basement. If it is not old, why not contact the company that did the work and see what they can tell you?

If there is something we might be able to determine that you cannot, how about posting a couple of photos so we can at least see what you are seeing in the inlets to the basin.

 

[Gary Martinson]

So first thank you for the responses. I took a while off of working on the pit to do more of the basement, but now that spring is fast approaching, I want to get this corrected. To answer some of the questions:
We have clay soil and the water table has been fairly high
Yes to the radon question - it was tested when we moved in and was very high, so we had an active remediation solution installed
The covering of the "plugs" was plastic, but they had concrete behind it - I have no idea how much is there, but I finally decided to try a masonry bit in my drill and it made it about 6" back and still hadn't reached the end of it...
Regarding the footings, I don't know what they are, but the house was built around 2004/05, if that helps...
My next thought is to get a jackhammer and blow out the concrete above where the weeping tile inlets are coming into the pit, but I'm scared about that as there isn't a lot of room between the pit and the exterior walls.

Here are a few photos of what I'm dealing with as well... The pit has two inlets and the water in the pit is from me testing the old (dead) pump and the newly purchased one. You can see the various holes I tried to drill on the first photo - second photo is the other inlet.

Thanks again for any and all advice!
Gary

 

[Gary Martinson]

Another update... I got a hammer drill and a longer masonry bit and was able to drill in about 8-10" into the concrete, but it didn't make it all the way through... Here's a photo of the latest damage:


My next guess is I need to break up the concrete above each inlet and try to remove/replace the corrugated pipe... Anyone have any ideas if this is even possible? I don't know how I'd attach new corrugated pipe to the cut pipe, if I'm even able to do that. I'm also terrified of doing damage to my exterior walls as I have NO idea how deep this concrete is.

My last option is to hire a plumber to come in and fix the whole thing, but I'm doing everything I can to avoid that as we are tapped due to all the other basement stuff I've had to purchase...

Again, any advise would be GREATLY appreciated.
Gary

 

[Cacher_Chick]

I dont know why they put the concrete in the line. It looks like it was a very loose pour, or maybe pumped in. You might end up needing a new drain tile all the way around. I much prefer solid PVC to corregated piping, as it is much easier to clean or repair in the future. There are transition couplers to tie the two together.

 

[Gary Martinson]

I have no idea either. And oh my god... How bad is it to NOT bother to replace the drain tile if that is needed? I know that is something I can't afford, must less tearing down ALL of the external walls I've built and ruining the spray foam I just had put in... I'm beginning to really regret purchasing this home and I REALLY hope that whacko didn't screw the whole thing up...

As for why, my only two guesses are the pump quit working (it was dead when I checked) or maybe they thought it would mitigate radon... The pit was already sealed as a radon mitigation tool. Also, we had the house tested before we moved in and it was super high, so we had an active system put in.

UGH. And thank you for your response.

 

[Cacher_Chick]

Maybe you should step back. If you have no issues with a wet basement, it could be that one is not needed. You could just drill the basin full of 1/4" holes and drop a new pump in there and see what happens. Depending on the existing ability of the soils to drain, some homes have no sump pump and others have ones that might run only under the most severe conditions. Until you know the situation there, throwing money at it might not be the best option.

 

[WorthFlorida]

Is all of your property level or is there a slope? Is it possible that a pipe was laid from the house tile drain to a lower elevation on the property? Possible that the pipe drains into a buried dry well?
All in all it seems after a radon test, when the home was built, the tile drain had to be plugged to minimize radon infiltration. Since the concrete is well inside the pipe it probably was filled with concrete before the floor was poured. If your home was built with several others on the same area, the builder may have been burned on other homes after a radon test was performed and could not get a CO. Burying the concrete that far in tells me that it might have been a cover up so it can pass a radon test and the owner still thinks they have a tile drain. As chick suggest, if you don't have a water issue, leave well enough alone.

 

[Gary Martinson]

So I have had an issue with a wet basement already. There ended up being a crack in one of the walls on the far side (away from the sump pit) and we had loads of rain last summer. During those rains, the crack began pouring water in, so I had a remediation company come in and seal the crack. They also put a membrane over that section and jackhammered out the concrete below so the membrane would put any new leaking water into the drain tile if their plugs failed at some point. They then filled the void with new concrete. I had to cut out about 4 or 5 feet of the framing I had installed (thank goodness this happened before drywall or plaster was put up!) and put the framing back up once the concrete was dry.

As for a well, nope, we don't have a well.

And regarding radon, the pit was sealed when we bought the place and it had a sticker on it indicating it was part of a radon reduction system and to not remove. We had a radon test done prior to our purchase and it came back very high, so we had an active system put in anyway.

I did purchase a new pump after I tested the old one and found it not working. After some heavy rains, I had checked the pit and it was bone dry, which was when I figured out the inlets were sealed. It initially looked like plastic caps because that's what came out when I did the first drilling.

I've never heard of drilling holes in the pit itself - is this a common thing? This is also only the 2nd home that I've had with a sump pit and both pits haven't had any holes, other than for the weeping tile inlets.

I apologize if it seems like I'm clueless - it is because I am. I just don't want to finish the basement and then a few years later have issues with the foundation or walls because some jack wagon sealed up my weeping tiles... Again, I appreciate all the feedback!!

 

[Cacher_Chick]

In a retrofit is is not uncommon to have a sump pit with perforations to allow the water to flow in from below the slab. Below the slab is normally a bed of stone and the water will flow through the stone to the lowest point, which one hopes is the sump pit.

A full rebuild would be to cut and remove 18" of the slab around the foundation walls, install new drain piping, and then replace the concrete. Some care must be used to ensure the weight of the exterior soils does not push the wall in when the slab is cut (uncommon, but it happens).
Alternatively, the exterior soil can be excavated and the drain piping can be placed on the outside. The best systems have both interior and exterior drains.

If you are up on a hill, it is possible to drain the water away from the foundation rather than pump it, which is also preferable.

 

[Gary Martinson]

Unfortunately I'm not on a hill. And I'm 90% certain that I have both exterior and interior tiles as the house was built in '04 or '05.

If I were to drill the 1/4" holes in the pit, do I need to put any kind of liner in the pit...?

 

[Reach4]

Unfortunately I'm not on a hill. And I'm 90% certain that I have both exterior and interior tiles as the house was built in '04 or '05.

If I were to drill the 1/4" holes in the pit, do I need to put any kind of liner in the pit...?

No additional pit liner...

I would use 3/16 holes instead of 1/4. I would put the holes at about the altitude of the gravel under the concrete, and not all of the way down.