Replacement of a circa 2007 Clack

[Jag_Man653]

My system has been in service about 16 years with resin replacement a couple times. I've lost the receipts & manuals so don't the model, but I think it's a WS1 or WS2.

My records show that the outside water hardness is 26 and inside is 11, whereas back in 2015 the inside was around 1. Clearly, the resin needs to be replaced.

The fellow who has been servicing our RO system in recent years says he will replace the resin for about $600. I got a similar quote from a company that sells & services Clack systems.

Some research shows I can have a Flect 5600 Timered system from a discounter for about $700. I'm thinking that would be a better investment than spending $600 on a 16 year old Clack. An attraction to the Flect is power outage protection so I wouldn't have to reenter all my settings every time there's a momentary power outage.

Now my questions.
First, how do I tell if I have a Clack WS1 or WS2? Seems there should be a label or marking somewhere on the control head but I can't find it.

Second, there are different models, e.g., Fleck 5600 SXT for which I've watched a nice YouTube on installing it. So how does SXT differ from the Timered model?

Third, there are options such as 1"vs. 3/4" . Does this refer to the house water pipes or the size or the size of the fitting on the water softener control head?

Finally, what am I missing? I.e., is there another Flect model I should be looking at?

 

[Reach4]

1. You do not want a timered softener. Look for the term "demand". That would be the case, even if it was not required by CA law.

2. Fleck 5800SXT has some advantages.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jag_Man653]

1. You do not want a timered softener. Look for the term "demand". That would be the case, even if it was not required by CA law.

2. Fleck 5800SXT has some advantages.

So is my current Clack timered or on demand?

Also, what advantages does the 5800SXT have over 5600SXT?

 

[Reach4]

5800 is able to pass higher GPM, which will not be a big deal as a softener. 5600 tops our at about 7 gpm. It would be much more significant in a backwashing filter application.

5800 SXT refills the brine tank with softened water. That should increase the years-between-cleaning for the brine tank.

I have never seen a 5800. People who are knowledgably speak well of it. I do have a 5600 in a filter application with light media where 5 gpm backwash is suffient.

I was not giving a strong recommendation. I was suggesting that you look into it.

Somebody may know your Clack question, but I do think it is not WS2. I think the 2 stands for pipe size, and clearly you don't have that. http://clackvalves.net/pdf/documents/WS Valves Comparison & Accessories.pdf

 

[Bannerman]

You didn't specify if your water supply is private well or municipal.

Unusual to require multiple resin replacements within only 16 years unless the resin was low quality and rapidly chlorine damaged by the chlorine within municipality supplied water, or became iron/manganese fouled by iron/manganese within well water.

A Clack WS1 (1" connections) or WS1.5 (1.5" connections) is superior to a Fleck 5600 of any variety since the 5600 was designed around 1980 that has several limitations and is best suited for 3/4" or smaller water distribution systems. The modern Fleck 5800 design addresses the 5600's limitations.

A quality softener valve such as those offered by Clack and Fleck, will typically have a lifespan exceeding several decades when periodically serviced by replacing highest wearing parts such as the seal & spacer stack, piston and brine valve. I suspect after 16 years, your unit would likely benefit by rebuilding with the above parts, particularly due to constant chlorine exposure if your water supply is municipal.

Assuming your softener valve remains functioning correctly, suggest performing 2 manual regenerations back-to-back, waiting ~1 hour after the 1st cycle ends before initiating the 2nd cycle. After the 2nd cycle has concluded, test hardness using a Hach 5B Total Hardness test kit to determine if softness has 8mproved.

 

[Jag_Man653]

You didn't specify if your water supply is private well or municipal.

Unusual to require multiple resin replacements within only 16 years unless the resin was low quality and rapidly chlorine damaged by the chlorine within municipality supplied water, or became iron/manganese fouled by iron/manganese within well water.

A Clack WS1 (1" connections) or WS1.5 (1.5" connections) is superior to a Fleck 5600 of any variety since the 5600 was designed around 1980 that has several limitations and is best suited for 3/4" or smaller water distribution systems. The modern Fleck 5800 design addresses the 5600's limitations.

A quality softener valve such as those offered by Clack and Fleck, will typically have a lifespan exceeding several decades when periodically serviced by replacing highest wearing parts such as the seal & spacer stack, piston and brine valve. I suspect after 16 years, your unit would likely benefit by rebuilding with the above parts, particularly due to constant chlorine exposure if your water supply is municipal.

Assuming your softener valve remains functioning correctly, suggest performing 2 manual regenerations back-to-back, waiting ~1 hour after the 1st cycle ends before initiating the 2nd cycle. After the 2nd cycle has concluded, test hardness using a Hach 5B Total Hardness test kit to determine if softness has 8mproved.

We live in Placentia and connect to Yorba Linda Water District. Typical hardness is about 20. My measurements (with TDS titration kit) in 2015 was 19 to 23 outside and less than inside. On 6/2/23 measurements were 28 & 11. Those high numbers prompted me to look into replacing the resin or replacing the system.

I'm surprised learn that resin can actually last so long. Perhaps the company I was dealing with (which I cannot remember and probably no longer exists) was responding to my perhaps misguided plea to "fix it."

I am leaning to system replacement with a Fleck 5600 SKT with 1" head. It provides power outage protection and should meet the needs of 2 elderly people.

Many thanks for you help.

 

[Bannerman]

My measurements (with TDS titration kit) in 2015 was 19 to 23

A TDS tester of any type does not measure hardness, but those numbers for TDS seem unusually low.

A softener relies on an ion exchange process to remove calcium and magnesium ions which are the minerals most responsible for hardness. Those ions are replaced with an equivalent amount of sodium ions so, any TDS change will be minimal if any. If you had utilized an electronic TDS meter, the TDS for the softener water will often read higher than the hard water since sodium is a better conductor than calcium or magnesium.

Since it seems you have been dissatisfied with your softener's performance for some time, perhaps it had not been correctly programmed for the actual water hardness and amount of capacity to be regenerated each cycle.

 

[Jag_Man653]

You didn't specify if your water supply is private well or municipal.

Unusual to require multiple resin replacements within only 16 years unless the resin was low quality and rapidly chlorine damaged by the chlorine within municipality supplied water, or became iron/manganese fouled by iron/manganese within well water.

A Clack WS1 (1" connections) or WS1.5 (1.5" connections) is superior to a Fleck 5600 of any variety since the 5600 was designed around 1980 that has several limitations and is best suited for 3/4" or smaller water distribution systems. The modern Fleck 5800 design addresses the 5600's limitations.

A quality softener valve such as those offered by Clack and Fleck, will typically have a lifespan exceeding several decades when periodically serviced by replacing highest wearing parts such as the seal & spacer stack, piston and brine valve. I suspect after 16 years, your unit would likely benefit by rebuilding with the above parts, particularly due to constant chlorine exposure if your water supply is municipal.

Assuming your softener valve remains functioning correctly, suggest performing 2 manual regenerations back-to-back, waiting ~1 hour after the 1st cycle ends before initiating the 2nd cycle. After the 2nd cycle has concluded, test hardness using a Hach 5B Total Hardness test kit to determine if softness has 8mproved.

Didn't do the regenerations, but just did the HACH 5B tests. Water directly from the hose spigot shows 22, and from the kitchen sink faucet 1. So it looks like my ancient Clack is still performing. Right? The brine tank looks pretty shabby inside but it's not leaking.
Have I just saved several hundred dollars or what?

Regarding power outage protection, I might spend $50 for a small 120v AC UPS and mount it beside the outlet in the water heater closet where the Clack plugs in.

 

[Jag_Man653]

I've decided to stick with Clack since my tests with Hach 5B Total Hardness test kit show it's working fine. But I will replace the brine tank & associated parts since it's looking pretty tattered. This is what I'm looking at:

https://www.cleanwaterstore.com/brine-tanks/brine-tank-18x-33-black-2310-safety-float-275-salt.html

It includes the tank, salt grid, and brine float assembly, and some amount, 10' or so, of 3/8" tubing.

I notice that the Clack brine float assemble looks a lot different that the one that came with my circa 2007 Clack system. See attached photo. Notably, the 4" plastic tube has disappeared. Instead, the float has a weird inverted funnel. I have no idea how it works. Anyone here have experience with one of these?

By the way, the valve come from Clack and the brine tank and associated parts is made by Nelson Corp. which does not deal directly with homeowners. Clear Water Store is one of their distributors.

 

[Caldezrat]

I bought a unit from my local vendor that was sourced from Nelson Corp. It came with the float valve shown. I was getting a lot of air in my shower head and investigated if my float valve was open/ closed as designed. I shook it and didn’t feel the “float” bouncing. I shook it harder and it unjammed. Reassembled it and no more air in my shower head. Mine still has the 4” tube going to the bottom. It was bought new one year ago.

 

[Jag_Man653]

I bought a unit from my local vendor that was sourced from Nelson Corp. It came with the float valve shown. I was getting a lot of air in my shower head and investigated if my float valve was open/ closed as designed. I shook it and didn’t feel the “float” bouncing. I shook it harder and it unjammed. Reassembled it and no more air in my shower head. Mine still has the 4” tube going to the bottom. It was bought new one year ago.

I've now installed the new brine tank, hoses, elbow fitting and associated bits. Unfortunately, my hardness at indoor faucets is now about the same as at the hose bib outside. IOW, the softener doesn't appear to be working. I'm now wondering if my float valve is working.
Could you clarify what exactly did you shake and how did feel the float bouncing? All of this is down in the 4" tube and I see no way one could get a hand down in there to feel anything.

 

[Bannerman]

Unfortunately, my hardness at indoor faucets is now about the same as at the hose bib outside.

Did you add any water to the new brine tank before performing the first regeneration using the new brine tank?

Brine Fill is usually the final stage of each regeneration cycle, so water that enters at the end of the regen cycle, will dissolve salt to create brine in advance for the following regeneration cycle. Because your brine tank is new, or after cleaning an existing tank, water will need to be manually added so as to prepare brine in advance of the next regeneration cycle.

The safety float and safety valve that is installed within the Brine tank's Brine Well (4" tube), is only a safety device to prevent the brine tank from filling too high and overflowing, resulting from a malfunction or a power outage during the Brine Fill cycle. Under normal operation, the amount of water that is to enter the brine tank, will be controlled directly by the control valve settings and so, the fluid level should not rise high enough to cause the float to be lifted.

The other valve within the brine well will be the Air Check Valve which is located at the bottom of the brine pickup tube, within the screen where the brine enters the tube during the Brine Draw cycle.

Once almost all of the brine has been drawn out of the brine tank during the Brine Draw cycle, there will be insufficient fluid remaining to float the ball inside of the screen. The ball will then come to rest on the J shaped brine pickup tube opening, thereby sealing the opening to prevent air from being drawn in during the remaining Slow Rinse stage of regeneration.

To access the Air Check Valve, the brine pickup tube, safety float and safety valve would need to be removed from the Brine Well.

 

[Caldezrat]

By unconnecting the hose to the float valve tube, i was able to pull the mechanism partially out of the round well inside the salt tank. My older float valve from a house I owned years ago you could visually see the float mechanism bouncing up and down. On my new float valve, I think there is a sort of shroud around the valve. I just shook it a little bit and could not detect any movement inside the shroud. I shook it a little more agressively and presto, I could feel the the valve bouncing with each jerking movement. I reassembled everything and all was good. I think something was stuck and I just loosened it up. It freely rattled every time I shook it before I reassembled it. I am from Placentia from the 50's. You can contact me if you need more clarification. Bannerman is correct. water should be in the brine tank.