Remodeling this Bathroom am I getting over quoted?

[Charlie Bosco]

I called a local bath and kitchen remodeling place and sent them this photo. Is a 5x11 Bathroom. When I spoke them about an estimate for a complete remodel they blew me away with just the estimate to replace the tub with a shower stall and nothing else. She made it sound like rocket science.

$15,000 or more..

I have not been sleeping under a rock for 20 years. I am a self professed handyman. I know materials have increased.. But Holy crap. For JUST a Shower Stall??? A day to a gut it, a few more days to refinish the 3 walls and add plumbing fixtures and then a few more days to tile it and may another day to install the shower glass. What am I missing besides a $7,000 commission for the designer?

 

[Dana]

It doesn't take a 20 year nap, 20 months would do.

A tidal wave of remodeling & building hit over the course of the pandemic, leading to shortage pricing on lots of materials. (Priced a 2x4 lately? It's enough to convince one switch over to steel framing for non-load bearing walls!) With both demand and materials pricing up, contractors are doing the rational thing and raising quote prices, if you can even get them to come out and quote it at all !

Remodel markets and labor costs are are all local, of course, but this is an unusual combination of market forces that seems to be happening all over the US. But like anything else what goes up must come down. Currently new home buyers in my area are pretty much priced out, simple remodels & HVAC replacement pricing is 1.5-2x what it was a couple of years ago. If the pricing isn't sustainable, it will fall. The only real question is "When?".

Don't be holding your breath...

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Charlie Bosco]

It doesn't take a 20 year nap, 20 months would do.

A tidal wave of remodeling & building hit over the course of the pandemic, leading to shortage pricing on lots of materials. (Priced a 2x4 lately? It's enough to convince one switch over to steel framing for non-load bearing walls!) With both demand and materials pricing up, contractors are doing the rational thing and raising quote prices, if you can even get them to come out and quote it at all !

Remodel markets and labor costs are are all local, of course, but this is an unusual combination of market forces that seems to be happening all over the US. But like anything else what goes up must come down. Currently new home buyers in my area are pretty much priced out, simple remodels & HVAC replacement pricing is 1.5-2x what it was a couple of years ago. If the pricing isn't sustainable, it will fall. The only real question is "When?".

Don't be holding your breath...

I fully understand and have personally experienced the lumber prices.. I recently built a storage loft in my shed that should have cost me $100.. It was $300 for a 4x11 loft..

The shower stall however is tile, Durock and shower heads. Even with a $1000 shower head, maybe $1500 of nice tile and a few hundred for Durock. I'm at about $3000.. That leaves $12,000 If the workers were paid 100/hr (certain that is not even close.) they would need to work for 120 man hours on a 5x3 Shower Stall.. A month.. Really? yes I did not include profit.. But even if I cut the time in half and they took a $6000 profit.. IT STILL 2 man weeks to make a shower stall???

If they were just honest and up front and tell me Yeah.. Its all profit.. If you want it done cheaper do it yourself.. That would make much more sense to me than gaslighting me into thinking its a really big job and materials (NOT TILE) have skyrocketed.

Sorry for venting my frustration here but builders seem to suck at conveying value.

 

[Dana]

I feel your pain here, and am putting off a couple projects on my own home (that I was hoping to get in this summer) until supply chains (including labor supply) issues get resolved and prices return to earth.

The quoted month to get'r done is more likely to be a measure of how overbooked they are. It's how long it takes to get the crew on site, not how long it takes to do the project once they are actually there.

Some of the crummier contractors in my area are starting projects right away to help seal the deal then taking forever to bring it to completion, ping-ponging crews between several projects in a single day to "show progress". (Not exactly how I'd prefer to do business, but it's not rare.)

If you have the skills, tools, & time, DIY may be the best bet in the near term.

 

[WorthFlorida]

$15k is about right for a total remodel of the entire bathroom. And over the phone estimate will always be higher because the work involved is alway more or unknown until the site can be visited. Problem for many is you only see the the surface work needed. Removing a tub and replacing it with a shower is not always easy. The entire drainage to the main stack usually needs to be changed. If a dumpster is needed that nowadays can easily be over $1k. When you call the remodeling company, someone has to answer the phones, order materials, etc. Rent, vehicle and insurance costs are also not seen.

For many of these companies, most of the workers are contractors. The site supervisor might be the only person working for the remodeling company. As Dana states, essentially there is a shortage of skilled labor and many are demanding higher prices because they are in demand.

Three years ago I contracted everyone and bought all the materials to redo the main bathroom of my home. It cost me about the same, it was well over $12k. Because of time and a bad back, I contracted one really good plumber and it was over $3k for his work. Replacing the tub took two workers. The tub and two sink faucets alone were $600 and they were decent Delta brands, not cheap big box store grade.

 

[Drick]

I had a guy give me a quote me for 12x24 foot deck back in May. The quote came back at $28,000. Now I haven't officially priced out all the materials yet, but I'm in the lumber isle on a semi weekly basis. Even at today's prices my guess is I'm comfortably under $8000 for materials. So that leaves at least $20,000 for labor. So lets say it takes two moderately skilled guys working at a leisurely pace two weeks to build the deck. That works out to at least $125/hr. per worker.

Either I'll have it quoted again in a couple of months when things cool off or I'll build it myself but I will not be paying $28,000.

 

[Weekend Handyman]

That is what I would expect to be quoted in my city. Of course, some people do take advantage of those who do not know what's involved in a project. I had a guy quote me $750 to change out the glass in a window. I ended up buying the glass (for $130) and installing it myself. It took me and my wife about an hour. Typical pricing around here seems to be material retail price x 2.

 

[Dana]

That is what I would expect to be quoted in my city. Of course, some people do take advantage of those who do not know what's involved in a project. I had a guy quote me $750 to change out the glass in a window. I ended up buying the glass (for $130) and installing it myself. It took me and my wife about an hour. Typical pricing around here seems to be material retail price x 2.

Lumber pricing near me has started to fall off a little bit, but it's still far above where it was 18 months ago. I'm not sure if the same can be said about other construction goods. Contractors are still all up to their eyeballs in work, so I don't expect to see any discounted quotes or accelerated schedules for the rest of this year.

If the economy cools off or crashes before next summer (it might, but also might not- it hard to predict some things, especially things that happen in the future ) local markets may return to their "old normal" next summer. We'll see...

 

[Mad Plumber]

Some stuff that was writ.

Terry, I just got ripped off. Its Sunday and they charged me $123.75 to come out and unplug my kitchen sink. It took them about 20 minutes.My check is going to bounch tomorow becase I dont have much in the bank.I feeel like they really ripped me off.Plumbers charge too much.
Tim

A person Shall not...deliver any check...with the intent to defraud...if the person does not have sufficient funds. 100 or more but less than 500 1) 1st or Second offense, a misdemeanor=jail for not more than 1 year or a fine of not more than $1,000 or 3 times the amount payable, whichever is greater, or both imprisonment and a fine. Hope you don't live in Michigan!
Casman

That's not getting ripped off. Ripped off is ordering a 40 gallon hot water heater, total install by a home Depot Contractor was $400, then when the guy finally shows up he goes into the basement, puts his hand on the vent pipe from the old heater which hooks into the chimney and says" Ahhh we got a problem and says I gotta go call my boss. He returns and says, Yup your vent pipe/Liner is too small it's only a 3" and should be 4", but we can put in a 4" liner for $400.00 more, which would bring the total to $800. Then he says how long you lived here. I said three years, and that liner is Brand new. It was installed along with 2 90% furnaces, 2 airconditioners, air cleaners etc. He says well it's too small but we can fix it. I said no, if in fact it's wrong then the HVAC contractor will replace it. I called my HVAC guys and they said 3" is correct. I also called other HVAC contractors who said the same thing, 3" is fine. Eventually, with the help of this site I put it in myself, took 1/2 hour, total cost about $250. You weren't ripped off, it was a Sunday and I'm sure that the Plumber would rather spend his time with his family then with your sink.
Casman

Hi, Tim.

I just hung up the phone on someone who asked what it would cost to rod a sewer on Sunday. I told him it would be $xxx.xx minimum, but the actual cost would depend on how long it took to fix it. So you got a bargain, but he should be sure to remember your name and phone number so that he either raise the quotation next time, or tell you he is not interested in you as a customer. I do not mind taking care of people's problems on the weekend if they cannot wait until Monday, but I do not appreciate it when they rip me off and then disappear so that they do not have to pay anything for the service.
hj

Gee, I'm glad you didn't call me. Ruin my Sunday to fix your problem, and then you don't pay? What did you say your name was?
Terry Love

Let me see if I understand you correctly. You knowingly wrote a bad cheque to pay for this Sunday service call. Hmmmmmmm, I really wonder who got ripped off here. Despite your bad cheque writing policy, I feel you got a fair charge for a Sunday service call of this nature. Next time, ask what the charge will be before proceeding with the work. By the way, you'll probably be hit with service charges from your bank because of the bounced cheque and You'll more than likely get a "nice" followup call from the plumber because of the cheque as well.If I were him, I'd hit you with additional penalty charges as well. Have a nice day. Marty

You got ripped off. Next time just call me I will rooter that thing out for 45 bucks. Better wait till monday when I sober up. I can charge so less cuz I don't have the overhead others do. I bet the company you used had to pay a licensed plumber overtime to come out on sunday. First off licensed guys get paid too much I never use em. Second of all man Sunday you need to wait I work m-th 12-5pm. Fri. I like to knock off about 3pm. you know where else they have overhead insurance,warranty,advertising, the list goes on who needs it ? Next time call me better yet page me I don't have my phone cut on right now.
The Cheap Plumber

Dang! Even I don't work that cheap!
Wait, I don't work cheap at all! I work really hard to be the best dang plumber that God's green earth has ever seen. I know that not everybody knows that I'm thet good, but I am! That is no way to treat good ol boys like me, thet work hard and do good work, and then on a Sunday too. Man!

I suggest to that guy with no money to pay his plumber, that maybe he should come over and mow his plumbers lawn, organize the garage, maybe paint a fence or something for him.

In this world, you can't be just asking people to do things for you on Sunday, and then not paying him. If there was like a lot of thunder and lighting, I would be a gettin worried for him.
Mad Plumber

 

[sajesak]

$15k is about right for a total remodel of the entire bathroom. And over the phone estimate will always be higher because the work involved is alway more or unknown until the site can be visited. Problem for many is you only see the the surface work needed. Removing a tub and replacing it with a shower is not always easy. The entire drainage to the main stack usually needs to be changed. If a dumpster is needed that nowadays can easily be over $1k. When you call the remodeling company, someone has to answer the phones, order materials, etc. Rent, vehicle and insurance costs are also not seen.

For many of these companies, most of the workers are contractors. The site supervisor might be the only person working for the remodeling company. As Dana states, essentially there is a shortage of skilled labor and many are demanding higher prices because they are in demand.

Three years ago I contracted everyone and bought all the materials to redo the main bathroom of my home. It cost me about the same, it was well over $12k. Because of time and a bad back, I contracted one really good plumber and it was over $3k for his work. Replacing the tub took two workers of bathroom remodelers. The tub and two sink faucets alone were $600 and they were decent Delta brands, not cheap big box store grade.

Hey all. Just got done a Master Bath remodel. Gutted everything to the studs. There was 3 floors all built on each other that had to be broken out. Installed a new window. Built in a bench in the shower. Insulated everything. Re-did all the electric, added outlets, lighting. Had to repair some rotted wood. Install new electric baseboard heater. Moved plumbing from one side of existing shower to the other side. Tiled the entire bathroom. Full tile in shower and half wall outside of shower. Still waiting for frameless doors to come in. New toilet, vanities, sink. And I would say I lost roughly a week between the plumber doing his work and the drywall guys doing their work. My wonder is how long it normally would take to do this job completely. I did it by myself 75% of the time and the rest of the time I had a helper to do some things that didn't require any skill. It took me exactly 4 weeks. Bathroom is roughly 11' deep and about 6 foot wide with the first 3 feet of it only 3 foot wide (basically a little walkway into the room). Is that way too long or am I on pace. If that's way too long, what can I do scheduling wise to make the next one go faster.

 

[GReynolds929]

Scheduling around multiple trades can be a time suck sometimes

 

[Archie B]

I called a local bath and kitchen remodeling place and sent them this photo. Is a 5x11 Bathroom. When I spoke them about an estimate for a complete remodel they blew me away with just the estimate to replace the tub with a shower stall and nothing else. She made it sound like rocket science.

$15,000 or more..

I have not been sleeping under a rock for 20 years. I am a self professed handyman. I know materials have increased.. But Holy crap. For JUST a Shower Stall??? A day to a gut it, a few more days to refinish the 3 walls and add plumbing fixtures and then a few more days to tile it and may another day to install the shower glass. What am I missing besides a $7,000 commission for the designer?

View attachment 74386

It doesn't take a 20 year nap, 20 months would do.

A tidal wave of remodeling & building hit over the course of the pandemic, leading to shortage pricing on lots of materials. (Priced a 2x4 lately? It's enough to convince one switch over to steel framing for non-load bearing walls!) With both demand and materials pricing up, contractors are doing the rational thing and raising quote prices, if you can even get them to come out and quote it at all !

Remodel markets and labor costs are are all local, of course, but this is an unusual combination of market forces that seems to be happening all over the US. But like anything else what goes up must come down. Currently new home buyers in my area are pretty much priced out, simple remodels & HVAC replacement pricing is 1.5-2x what it was a couple of years ago. If the pricing isn't sustainable, it will fall. The only real question is "When?".

Don't be holding your breath...

I agree with Dana, the pricing of everything has risen at extreme levels since 2020.
What I haven't seen anyone mention on this thread is the cost of doing business. The cost of doing business doesn't stop at the materials, look at it this way:
You called a licensed contractor- The fact that you found him wasn't free to him. The cost of advertising and marketing alone, in todays environment will drive many small businesses under. In short that contractor paid dearly just to be found. You can expect that cost to be 10-20% of the total. Then there's the cost of the sale- that's right, the sales team works on a commission basis. No sale-No pay. You can expect that number to be between 8-12% off the top. A good salesman is worth his weight in gold.
Back around to the licensing- That isnt free, neither is liability insurance, bonding, workers compensation, payroll taxes, unemployment insurance, office space, utilities, tools and vehicles. Then there's state and federal taxes, and yes even states that do not have a personal income tax, have a business tax at the local city, county and state level. You see everyone's got their hand in the pie, not just the contractor.
This is why I don't provider cost breakdowns to people, because unless they are a business owner they just don't understand the cost of business.
In short: Of course it's cheaper to DIY- I can DIY at my home for less than retail too, because there's no cost of doing business.