Amos Moses
New Member
I noticed a while back I was getting a bit of air discharge from my well at times and it was gradually worsening, but no real problem, and I sort of assumed it was that snifter valve, which I changed....and got no change in the issue. A few days ago I'm hit with no water. I had 220V to the points as well as down the hole. I thought I could 'hear' a slight vibration, but it was minimal or imagined for all I know. So, I pulled the pump. Its about 80 to 90 feet down, strung with 1" Schedule 40 PVC from tank down, but there was a single 20' stick of very thin walled and slightly darker pipe at the very bottom of the run. It fits fine joint to joint with SCH 40 PVC - you could alternate SCH 40 and this back to back, no problem. But its extremely thin.
As it was coming up the casing, I could see that the pipe was distorted where it was inserted into the 1-1/4" pump discharge BEFORE it left the casing while I was pulling up. I couldn't tell how much, but I could tell it was definitely distorted. Well, that's a fight, and with pipe in the air and a real desire to finish, you pull and lean, and as soon as that pump top hit air above the casing, that thin walled pipe ninetied over incredibly fast, but didn't break. It was like black roll poly pipe, which may well be better, as we snapped that PVC at one joint, but we were ready for that and had someone holding the wire with no slack to jerk and instructions to hold but let it 'brake' a bit, and we stopped it in less than four feet and it was no issue. It'll have a line going back in the hole. I sort of assumed that the soft, thin walled pipe was some sort of jackleg attempt at torque arresting, or maybe its an accepted form of it. I'm no well man.
So we get the pump out of the hole and the pipe is useless for determination of how bad the distortion at the discharge was before we bent hell out of it. I put 220V to the pump for a few seconds....the motor kicked on, no excessive vibration or noise and no significant noise or noticeable pump vibration that I could tell. So, I took it across the street to my father's place to drop it in a drum and check it out. I assumed that it was distorted enough to deadhead the pump and that may have been my issue or that the pump was bad. I figured one of the two.
Since my father wasn't home I came back to my place and went to cut that piece of thin walled pipe off ... and as soon as I did, I saw an obstruction jammed into the pipe, and when I say jammed, I mean JAMMED. Now this is at the end 20' from the pump discharge. It was unremovable by needle nose pliers or vice grips even only recessed an inch into the bore from where I cut - an easy grab. It jammed there since it was impossible for it to access the SCH 40 bore. I cut the pipe longways and removed it, and it looked like something that you would use to plug a lavatory drain with, just more utilitarian. About 2-1/2" or so, white poly, roughly an inch around (obviously). It's got a black neoprene-like O-ring of about 1/8" width stock girdling the "plug", and it, again obviously, is roughly 1" in diameter. There are four poly "legs" (pointing pumpward...it's "bottom"). At least two of them have small "feet", and damage prevents my ability to tell if the feet are possibly quadrilateral. There is some significant damage to them all from my pulling, so that's about all I can give you there. It's "top" reveals functionality. Embossed around the top of this "plug" is "TO REMOVE" - "PULL UP". There is a vertical poly shaft (approx 1/4" in diameter and about 1-3/4" long) that extends through the round "plug" that is topped in the form of a horizontally bi grooved and flattened "twist knob" that evidently works in cam like function with the feet of those legs extending below the plug body.
Now, this thing is literally 20' past discharge, and it HAD TO come from below...pumpward. Schedule 40 PVC couldn't accommodate it, as if something could get down a 10 year plus old pump pipe anyway from a system never opened. If its something that's required for pump function, how would it jam so high and hard? If it's something for pump well being, long life, efficiency, protection, but not truly function, now, I could see that.
I called the pump installers, and they couldn't ID the part or tell me why there would be that single stick of thin walled at the terminal end of the pipe string. Now, granted, this was the person who answered the phone, but she's been there a number of years and has answered many a question. They are the only game in town and have done a ton of work here in the past at least 40 years that I can attest to. That said, I'm still not confidant enough with her answer...and this is no he/she thing. Give me a she who bores, cases, pipes, and sets wells and I'll take her over any male who doesn't.
So, I tried to access an exploded diagram online, and failed to find one. That could be me of course, but that's another issue to address elsewhere, I guess. Any help that anyone could offer to this backwoods mechanically challenged goofball would be appreciated more than you can imagine. I live in a parish - county to most of y'all - that quite literally doesn't have one single full red-green-yellow traffic light, and the sooner I know if I need a new pump/motor system or whatever, the better...there's no Home Depot around the corner, that's for sure.
The Pump is a RED JACKET WATER PRODUCTS Grizzly 50F21112G8, with a Franklin Electric Motor Model: 2445059004, and I can furnish any other info you may need. Just let me know.
Also, I have some rolls of seven strand snare wire, 1/8" and 3/16", but it's all just galvanized. No stainless at this point...or not near enough to go from ground to groundwater here. I also have some 1/8" or more poly cordage that I use for alligators - I've caught many, many huge alligators and have yet to pop a line, and I will use the line for ten years or more but intermittently, just rolled in a ball around the hook and tossed in a 5 gallon bucket for storage between uses, and it never stays soaking wet for too long. Will that cordage work. I think I can answer for ground to water, but at the ground-water interface and underwater, I'm not so sure. Any ideas on that, anyone? I'm planning to use two, one per tie off hole. I know it beats nothing, but if this is a protracted event requiring waiting for pump or parts, if anyone can advise better, I'll do all I can to get it in time.
Thanksso very much for your consideration if you've read this far even if you can't help me, and I mean that more sincerely than I'd expect you imagine. I truly do.
As it was coming up the casing, I could see that the pipe was distorted where it was inserted into the 1-1/4" pump discharge BEFORE it left the casing while I was pulling up. I couldn't tell how much, but I could tell it was definitely distorted. Well, that's a fight, and with pipe in the air and a real desire to finish, you pull and lean, and as soon as that pump top hit air above the casing, that thin walled pipe ninetied over incredibly fast, but didn't break. It was like black roll poly pipe, which may well be better, as we snapped that PVC at one joint, but we were ready for that and had someone holding the wire with no slack to jerk and instructions to hold but let it 'brake' a bit, and we stopped it in less than four feet and it was no issue. It'll have a line going back in the hole. I sort of assumed that the soft, thin walled pipe was some sort of jackleg attempt at torque arresting, or maybe its an accepted form of it. I'm no well man.
So we get the pump out of the hole and the pipe is useless for determination of how bad the distortion at the discharge was before we bent hell out of it. I put 220V to the pump for a few seconds....the motor kicked on, no excessive vibration or noise and no significant noise or noticeable pump vibration that I could tell. So, I took it across the street to my father's place to drop it in a drum and check it out. I assumed that it was distorted enough to deadhead the pump and that may have been my issue or that the pump was bad. I figured one of the two.
Since my father wasn't home I came back to my place and went to cut that piece of thin walled pipe off ... and as soon as I did, I saw an obstruction jammed into the pipe, and when I say jammed, I mean JAMMED. Now this is at the end 20' from the pump discharge. It was unremovable by needle nose pliers or vice grips even only recessed an inch into the bore from where I cut - an easy grab. It jammed there since it was impossible for it to access the SCH 40 bore. I cut the pipe longways and removed it, and it looked like something that you would use to plug a lavatory drain with, just more utilitarian. About 2-1/2" or so, white poly, roughly an inch around (obviously). It's got a black neoprene-like O-ring of about 1/8" width stock girdling the "plug", and it, again obviously, is roughly 1" in diameter. There are four poly "legs" (pointing pumpward...it's "bottom"). At least two of them have small "feet", and damage prevents my ability to tell if the feet are possibly quadrilateral. There is some significant damage to them all from my pulling, so that's about all I can give you there. It's "top" reveals functionality. Embossed around the top of this "plug" is "TO REMOVE" - "PULL UP". There is a vertical poly shaft (approx 1/4" in diameter and about 1-3/4" long) that extends through the round "plug" that is topped in the form of a horizontally bi grooved and flattened "twist knob" that evidently works in cam like function with the feet of those legs extending below the plug body.
Now, this thing is literally 20' past discharge, and it HAD TO come from below...pumpward. Schedule 40 PVC couldn't accommodate it, as if something could get down a 10 year plus old pump pipe anyway from a system never opened. If its something that's required for pump function, how would it jam so high and hard? If it's something for pump well being, long life, efficiency, protection, but not truly function, now, I could see that.
I called the pump installers, and they couldn't ID the part or tell me why there would be that single stick of thin walled at the terminal end of the pipe string. Now, granted, this was the person who answered the phone, but she's been there a number of years and has answered many a question. They are the only game in town and have done a ton of work here in the past at least 40 years that I can attest to. That said, I'm still not confidant enough with her answer...and this is no he/she thing. Give me a she who bores, cases, pipes, and sets wells and I'll take her over any male who doesn't.
So, I tried to access an exploded diagram online, and failed to find one. That could be me of course, but that's another issue to address elsewhere, I guess. Any help that anyone could offer to this backwoods mechanically challenged goofball would be appreciated more than you can imagine. I live in a parish - county to most of y'all - that quite literally doesn't have one single full red-green-yellow traffic light, and the sooner I know if I need a new pump/motor system or whatever, the better...there's no Home Depot around the corner, that's for sure.
The Pump is a RED JACKET WATER PRODUCTS Grizzly 50F21112G8, with a Franklin Electric Motor Model: 2445059004, and I can furnish any other info you may need. Just let me know.
Also, I have some rolls of seven strand snare wire, 1/8" and 3/16", but it's all just galvanized. No stainless at this point...or not near enough to go from ground to groundwater here. I also have some 1/8" or more poly cordage that I use for alligators - I've caught many, many huge alligators and have yet to pop a line, and I will use the line for ten years or more but intermittently, just rolled in a ball around the hook and tossed in a 5 gallon bucket for storage between uses, and it never stays soaking wet for too long. Will that cordage work. I think I can answer for ground to water, but at the ground-water interface and underwater, I'm not so sure. Any ideas on that, anyone? I'm planning to use two, one per tie off hole. I know it beats nothing, but if this is a protracted event requiring waiting for pump or parts, if anyone can advise better, I'll do all I can to get it in time.
Thanksso very much for your consideration if you've read this far even if you can't help me, and I mean that more sincerely than I'd expect you imagine. I truly do.
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