PK1A-LT Cycle Stop Valve Setup

[Yinn]

Hi,
I just put an order in for a cycle stop valve but I want to double check my installation to make sure I'm doing it right.

Question 1: Is my pressure switch and valve settings appropriate for my house to get good consistent pressure throughout?

PK1A-LT Pside-Kick Pressure Tank Kit
Pressure Switch: 50/70 PSI
Valve Setting: 60 PSI

Well Pump Type: Submersed, ~100ft from house. 1/2hp
Pressure Tank: Amtrol WX-251, 62 gallon set to 47PSI
Well Entrance: ~5 feet below ground level, basement entrance.
Stories: 2 @ 9ft ceilings

Loss factors:
- Farthest bathroom from well entrance is approximately ~100ft horizontal, ~20ft vertical
- 3x Big Blue sediment pre-filters, 1 nitrate removal tank, 1 softener tank (rated 75PSI max)
- 3/4" copper trunks with 1/2" branches

Question 2: I've seen several installations. The manufacture shows the kits with the pressure tank attached via the bottom, but several posts have it attached after the fact. Do they function the same way? Are there any differences between installing a 3/4" pipe down to the floor and into the Amtrol vs bringing the CSV down to the floor and installing the Amtrak in line to the 1" NPT outlet?

Manufacture:

In Line:

 

[Valveman]

No problem attaching the tank to the 3/4 port on the bottom or downstream of the CSV1A as shown in the last picture. Either will work. And yes the PK1A will deliver strong constant pressure to your house. However, a WX251 holds about 15 gallons of water. You will have to use all 15 gallons from the large tank as the pressure drops from 70 down to 50 before the pump starts and you start seeing the 65 PSI constant pressure than the CSV1A needs to be adjusted to hold. With a 3 GPM shower going you will see the pressure drop for 5 minutes before the tank is empty and the pressure comes up to constant 65 PI. With a small tank you wouldn't have to wait 5 minutes for constant pressure. Other than that the large tank is fine with the CSV1A.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Yinn]

No problem attaching the tank to the 3/4 port on the bottom or downstream of the CSV1A as shown in the last picture. Either will work. And yes the PK1A will deliver strong constant pressure to your house. However, a WX251 holds about 15 gallons of water. You will have to use all 15 gallons from the large tank as the pressure drops from 70 down to 50 before the pump starts and you start seeing the 65 PSI constant pressure than the CSV1A needs to be adjusted to hold. With a 3 GPM shower going you will see the pressure drop for 5 minutes before the tank is empty and the pressure comes up to constant 65 PI. With a small tank you wouldn't have to wait 5 minutes for constant pressure. Other than that the large tank is fine with the CSV1A.

Thank you. I understand the larger drop, it's something we're willing to deal with since we get frequent power outages. The extra gallon or two that we get after an outage is usually just enough to get us wrapped up and one or two emergency toilet flushes.

We are bumping up there pressure switch - previous 40/60. It was good pressure at 60 but terrible (for us) and good enough at 40 before the pump cycles on for the lower bathroom but horrendous for the furthest bathroom. So this is hoping that an extra 10psi for a drop down to 50 won't be too noticeable before holding the constant 60.

 

[Reach4]

Thank you. I understand the larger drop, it's something we're willing to deal with since we get frequent power outages. The extra gallon or two that we get after an outage is usually just enough to get us wrapped up and one or two emergency toilet flushes.

Guardian CP Control can be set for a 10 psi differential, but costs. I only know what I read, and some reviews report failures. This could be wired in series with a mechanical pressure switch for redundancy. https://www.supplyhouse.com/Amtrol-146-832-Guardian-CP-Control

 

[Yinn]

No problem attaching the tank to the 3/4 port on the bottom or downstream of the CSV1A as shown in the last picture. Either will work. And yes the PK1A will deliver strong constant pressure to your house. However, a WX251 holds about 15 gallons of water. You will have to use all 15 gallons from the large tank as the pressure drops from 70 down to 50 before the pump starts and you start seeing the 65 PSI constant pressure than the CSV1A needs to be adjusted to hold. With a 3 GPM shower going you will see the pressure drop for 5 minutes before the tank is empty and the pressure comes up to constant 65 PI. With a small tank you wouldn't have to wait 5 minutes for constant pressure. Other than that the large tank is fine with the CSV1A.

Just to make sure..
Since the WX251 isn't designed to go upside down and be suspended I was planning on using the 3/4 port on the bottom of the CSV and running 3/4 pex down (~3 ft) to my pressure tank. I was going to leave everything else as is in the first picture with the PRV, gauge, and switch up near the CSV. But then I saw this in the instructions. "Do not install pressure switch directly on main line away from pressure tank" so figured I would double check.

I wasn't sure if that meant the pressure switch further down stream on the main line, or if what I was attempting to do would mess it up as well since I was going some distance downwards. I would think it would still be ok but trying to be safe than sorry.

 

[Sarg]

The extra gallon or two that we get after an outage is usually just enough to get us wrapped up and one or two emergency toilet flushes.
.

I've read that scenario on several forums and always wonder how the "lottery" works when the system is static at 42 psi on a 40/60 switch ... and then the power goes out.
Minimal value added.

 

[Yinn]

I've read that scenario on several forums and always wonder how the "lottery" works when the system is static at 42 psi on a 40/60 switch ... and then the power goes out.
Minimal value added.

I'm not sure what you mean by "lottery" do you mean just how we go about it?

If so, the dishwasher, washing machine all flip off during an outage. So the water usage stops there.

The only water running would be from the taps and showers. As a household we know if the lights flick off, we immediately turn the water off. You're wet enough to finish lathering and you turn it on for seconds to rinse and call it a day.

As for toilets, if it's yellow let it mellow. There's only enough for 2-3 flushes max before we're completely out. The entire house knows that at that point we switch to the bottled water for drinking and hand sanitizers instead of washing hands. If need be we manually fill the toilet tanks with the bottled water but that gets expensive. But if we know a storm is coming we'll pre-fill water jugs and usually a bathtub for that very purpose. If we're out for more than a day, it's wet wipes instead of showers. But it's hard to know if it's a 30 minute outage or a 3 hour outage for us.

The pressure tank doesn't give us much, it literally is to finish off rinsing whatever it is we are. It beats having to get out and scream for someone to grab a gallon of water to finish up - which we've also done unfortunately.

 

[LLigetfa]

I'm not sure what you mean by "lottery"

The way the lottery works, the tank will be one cup away from empty the moment the power goes out.

 

[Yinn]

The way the lottery works, the tank will be one cup away from empty the moment the power goes out.

I must be missing something here. I didn't think it'll be any different than what we're dealing with today. It's the same tank just with the cycle stop valve. Or are you saying I'll have less capacity with the same tank with the cycle stop valve?

 

[LLigetfa]

I didn't think it'll be any different than what we're dealing with today.

It isn't any different.

 

[Yinn]

It isn't any different.

Ok thank you

 

[Sarg]

The lottery aspect is ......... 15 gallons left in the tank because the well system cycled to 60 psi and later we lost power....... OR ...... the tank was full and we used water causing the pressure to drop to 42 psi leaving .... just like LLigetfa said .... a cup of water left in the tank ...... and we lost power.
You cannot predict .... so it's a lottery.

 

[Yinn]

The lottery aspect is ......... 15 gallons left in the tank because the well system cycled to 60 psi and later we lost power....... OR ...... the tank was full and we used water causing the pressure to drop to 42 psi leaving a quart of water in the tank ...... and we lost power.
You cannot predict .... so it's a lottery.

Got it, thank you for the clarification. It very much is so, which is why we've had to occasionally scream for a jug of water.

 

[Valveman]

Got it, thank you for the clarification. It very much is so, which is why we've had to occasionally scream for a jug of water.

Keep a couple of jugs in the closet. That is the only way to be sure and have water when the power goes off. A pressure tank is a false sense of security and will let you down more than not.

 

[LLigetfa]

I use two hydro-pneumatic tanks in series where the first tank AVC is not working and on the second tank the AVC is set much higher. When there is a power outage, I have a large reserve of water albeit at lower pressure. The AVC releases air slowly so I have to quickly draw down the reserve before I lose all of the air.