Fleck 7000 64k unit replacing resin

[Silversaver]

Hi guys,

I am back since 2013. I have the Fleck 7000 64k unit installed with your help. In 2021, I ask the same guy install the system for me to help me replace the resin on this 64k unit. He did, but he only replace with one bag (1CuFt) of Purolite resin. I have always set the system with 48k at about 10lbs salt setting. Now, I am running out of soft water constantly.

I did not know the 64k unit will need 2 CuFt of resin instead...... Long store short, what should I do now? Set the system with lower capacity or get an newer unit? It cost me $600 to replace the resin and I cannot afford to have another bad job. He should have know base on tank size it is a 64k unit that will need 2 bags of resin.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Reach4]

I wonder if he pulled out 1 cuft and added 1 cuft of new... Or did he dump all of the resin, and then only add 1 cuft back.

Is the tank natural tan, so that you can shine a light thru, or is it painted a color such as blue or black?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Silversaver]

He empty out the resin. Black tank 12x52.

It doesn’t make any sense if you replace 1/2 of the old resin if you know what I meant. I have no idea why perhaps increase profit on the cost of resin. That’s why I’m not risk another replace job from same guy. It is just a regular softener.

 

[Bannerman]

Long store short, what should I do now?

Simply obtain an additional 1ft resin and add it yourself to the 1ft3 already within the media tank.

Was any gravel installed within the media tank? If not, suggest also adding 20lbs bedding gravel into the tank.

Why was the original resin replaced after only 8 years?

I have always set the system with 48k at about 10lbs salt setting.

As regeneration of 24K grains usable capacity requires 8lbs salt in a 1ft3 system, regenerating 48K grains capacity will require 16lbs salt in a 2ft3 system.

 

[Silversaver]

Simply obtain an additional 1ft resin and add it yourself to the 1ft3 already within the media tank.

Was any gravel installed within the media tank? If not, suggest also adding 20lbs bedding gravel into the tank.

Why was the original resin replaced after only 8 years?


As regeneration of 24K grains usable capacity requires 8lbs salt in a 1ft3 system, regenerating 48K grains capacity will require 16lbs salt in a 2ft3 system.

Hi,

The old resin were breaking up in smaller pieces and I have no idea why. I’m surprise why such a short life cycle. My old GE softener last 13 years. Perhaps bad quality resin used? Regardless of salt setting the water is no longer soft my setting on Fleck 7000 were 28 BF, that should equal to about 21lbs salt for each regeneration. I figure is 2 cuft 64k softener, so I say my setting is about 10lbs on each cuft.

The Fleck 7000 still working so I came up idea with replacing the resin. Call the guy who install my system got quoted for $600 and I agree. He only use 1 bag 1CuFt resin and he has not use or add any gravel. The softener works but like on and off thing…. It is getting worse now and I just start reading on solution again. I realized something isn’t right. I don’t want to keep spending money on something I’m not sure I can get a positive result. I’m not mention name since I don’t like to bashing on people. It is just a water softener why make it so complicate? Perhaps I ask the wrong guy for the job….

Seriously, I don’t know who I can trust to make it work. I have watch few videos on how to replace the resin. After reading about discontinued of Fleck 7000 and its problem, I think it is best to replace with a better unit. Just like my old AC keep adding freon because of leaking which were very costly. A new AC from Rheem were much cheaper and better. The funny part is after replace with a new unit they found the leak spot…..

Any suggestion on a 64k unit? The newer unit uses less salt and water probably better in long run.

Thanks

 

[Reach4]

I presume that you have city water. The chlorine/chloramine reduces the resin life.

With your new system, you want 10% crosslinked resin. It degrades slower in the face of chlorine.

I also would add another cuft of 10% crosslinked resin plus about 20 25 pounds of softener gravel to your 7000-based softener with a 12 inch tank. If you DIY, I would get a funnel. It is hard to not spill some. Removing the old resin is the hard part of changing resin IMO (but not the expensive part).

 

[Bannerman]

my setting on Fleck 7000 were 28 BF, that should equal to about 21lbs salt for each regeneration

The quantity of salt dissolved, is entirely dependant on both the BF setting and the flow rate of the BLFC (brine line flow control) restrictor that is installed. For 21lbs to be dissolved with a 28-minute BF setting, would signify a 0.25 GPM BLFC.

21 lbs salt is significantly greater than required to regenerate all 32K grains total capacity for 1ft3 resin, and an inefficient amount to regenerate 48K grains usable capacity for 2ft3 resin.

The old resin were breaking up in smaller pieces

Not understanding what you are referring to as water softener resin granules are similar in consistency to beach sand.

You didn't describe the issues you experienced, but if resin had escaped from the softener and was found in your home's faucet aerators and fixtures, that would not signify a resin issue, but would suggest a compromised bottom basket within the softener tank or, reversal of the softener's plumbing connections.

Any suggestion on a 64k unit? The newer unit uses less salt and water probably better in long run.

The amount of salt and water utilized, is governed by the settings that are programmed.

Perhaps I ask the wrong guy for the job….

Appears so.

 

[Silversaver]

The quantity of salt dissolved, is entirely dependant on both the BF setting and the flow rate of the BLFC (brine line flow control) restrictor that is installed. For 21lbs to be dissolved with a 28-minute BF setting, would signify a 0.25 GPM BLFC.

21 lbs salt is significantly greater than required to regenerate all 32K grains total capacity for 1ft3 resin, and an inefficient amount to regenerate 48K grains usable capacity for 2ft3 resin.


Not understanding what you are referring to as water softener resin granules are similar in consistency to beach sand.

You didn't describe the issues you experienced, but if resin had escaped from the softener and was found in your home's faucet aerators and fixtures, that would not signify a resin issue, but would suggest a compromised bottom basket within the softener tank or, reversal of the softener's plumbing connections.

The amount of salt and water utilized, is governed by the settings that are programmed.


Appears so.

Hi,

Yes, it has 0.25GPM BLFC. I just set the BF from 28 to 32 and see if I get softer water all the way before regeneration. I’ll monitor see how long the water will stay soft before it need another cycle. I set the softener capacity at 48k as suggested. If base on 48k setting, it should be at enough on salt setting for softer water.

I also have a very slow leak issue from the bypass valve brass sweat connector. Probably need to replace the o ring, but I am not sure what size of o ring to get. The copper pipe is 1 1/4. I’ll upload some images. Let me know if that is the right o ring to get.

I’ll probably order 1 CuFt of resin if I need to add to the tank. While adding resin to the bank, perhaps replace the o ring at same time.

Thanks

 

[Reach4]

Your local full service hardware store may have O-rings and could match up the old one. I can see that ordering up the official o-ring in advance has a good advantage.

 

[Bannerman]

I just set the BF from 28 to 32 and see if I get softer water all the way before regeneration. I’ll monitor see how long the water will stay soft before it need another cycle. I set the softener capacity at 48k as suggested.

The total (maximum) capacity for 1ft3 resin is 32,000 grains. To regenerate all 32K capacity for 1ft3, will require 18-20 lbs salt each cycle. Your 28-minute BF setting will dissolve 21 lbs salt, and the 32-minute setting will dissolve 24 lbs salt. The additional salt in excess of 18-20 lbs, will not provide softer water but will only be wasted.

2ft3 resin will fill your 12X52 tank to approx 2/3 of the tank height, but with only 1ft3, the tank will only be filled to ~1/3 of the tank height, which will provide insufficient resin depth for hardness removal to fully occur.

Programming the controller to regenerate when it calculates 48K grains has been depleted, will not extend soft water delivery to the next subsequent regeneration as the maximum capacity for 1ft3 resin is only 32K grains, so the resin's capacity will be exhausted long before regeneration will occur.

The soft water that will be initially provided from the 32K that was regenerated, will be of low quality due to the amount of hardness leakage resulting from insufficient resin depth. Adding a further 1ft3 to the 1ft3 resin already within the tank, will increase the resin depth which will improve soft water quality, and the additional capacity from 2ft3, will provide 48K of usable capacity between regen cycles.

Although the total capacity for 2ft3 is 64K, salt efficiency will be increased by topping-up capacity when 48K has been depleted, as only 16 lbs salt will be needed (48,000 / 16lbs = 3,000 grains per lb efficiency).

Your softener's label specifies it is equipped with a 2.4 GPM DLFC (drain line flow control). To ensure sufficient resin lift and expansion during Backwash, a 2.4 GPM DLFC is usually appropriate for a 10" diameter softener, and 3.0 GPM for a 12" tank. As you are located in California where your incoming water maybe warmer than most areas, your softener may require a DLFC restrictor that exceeds 3.0 GPM depending on the water temperature.

 

[Silversaver]

The total (maximum) capacity for 1ft3 resin is 32,000 grains. To regenerate all 32K capacity for 1ft3, will require 18-20 lbs salt each cycle. Your 28-minute BF setting will dissolve 21 lbs salt, and the 32-minute setting will dissolve 24 lbs salt. The additional salt in excess of 18-20 lbs, will not provide softer water but will only be wasted.

2ft3 resin will fill your 12X52 tank to approx 2/3 of the tank height, but with only 1ft3, the tank will only be filled to ~1/3 of the tank height, which will provide insufficient resin depth for hardness removal to fully occur.

Programming the controller to regenerate when it calculates 48K grains has been depleted, will not extend soft water delivery to the next subsequent regeneration as the maximum capacity for 1ft3 resin is only 32K grains, so the resin's capacity will be exhausted long before regeneration will occur.

The soft water that will be initially provided from the 32K that was regenerated, will be of low quality due to the amount of hardness leakage resulting from insufficient resin depth. Adding a further 1ft3 to the 1ft3 resin already within the tank, will increase the resin depth which will improve soft water quality, and the additional capacity from 2ft3, will provide 48K of usable capacity between regen cycles.

Although the total capacity for 2ft3 is 64K, salt efficiency will be increased by topping-up capacity when 48K has been depleted, as only 16 lbs salt will be needed (48,000 / 16lbs = 3,000 grains per lb efficiency).

Your softener's label specifies it is equipped with a 2.4 GPM DLFC (drain line flow control). To ensure sufficient resin lift and expansion during Backwash, a 2.4 GPM DLFC is usually appropriate for a 10" diameter softener, and 3.0 GPM for a 12" tank. As you are located in California where your incoming water maybe warmer than most areas, your softener may require a DLFC restrictor that exceeds 3.0 GPM depending on the water temperature.

Are you suggest I should just replace a new system better than trying to making it work?

I’m actually prefer to get a new system and be sure I find a right installer to do the job. Just not sure what to get yet.

I can add another of bag of resin to the tank, but not knowing if it will address the issue.

 

[Bannerman]

Are you suggest I should just replace a new system better than trying to making it work?

Suggest you re-read what was written. Nowhere did I suggest to replace the system. Although production of the 7000 control valve has been discontinued, it was a high selling, top quality valve, and replacement parts likely continue to be available for some time yet (possibly decades).

add another of bag of resin to the tank, but not knowing if it will address the issue.

My narrative explained insufficient resin depth will result in virtually all of the issues you currently are experiencing. Both my initial comment and R4 advised to add an additional 1ft3 resin + 20 lbs bedding gravel to your existing system.

I said "virtually all" as you have not yet clarified the issues that were experienced that caused you to decide to replace the resin.

I’m actually prefer to get a new system and be sure I find a right installer to do the job.

As you are preferring to replace your 10-year old system, it doesn't much matter what we advise regarding your current issues.

If you do proceed to replace with a new system, suggest installing it yourself. Since there is already a softener in-place, the most difficult part of the installation has already been performed. If you obtain another 2ft3 Fleck unit, it might possibly connect directly to the existing bypass valve without further modification.

 

[Silversaver]

Suggest you re-read what was written. Nowhere did I suggest to replace the system. Although production of the 7000 control valve has been discontinued, it was a high selling, top quality valve, and replacement parts likely continue to be available for some time yet (possibly decades).


My narrative explained insufficient resin depth will result in virtually all of the issues you currently are experiencing. Both my initial comment and R4 advised to add an additional 1ft3 resin + 20 lbs bedding gravel to your existing system.

I said "virtually all" as you have not yet clarified the issues that were experienced that caused you to decide to replace the resin.


As you are preferring to replace your 10-year old system, it doesn't much matter what we advise regarding your current issues.

If you do proceed to replace with a new system, suggest installing it yourself. Since there is already a softener in-place, the most difficult part of the installation has already been performed. If you obtain another 2ft3 Fleck unit, it might possibly connect directly to the existing bypass valve without further modification.

Thank you.

I’m not sure if there are any gravel for bedding when new. Are gravel came with the system? I only recall the service guy dump out old resin and add one bag of resin. I wasn’t there the whole time to see all the details, but I know he only add 1 bag of resin.

I understand it is recommend use gravel for tank greater 12”.

Yes, the Fleck 7000 is only 10 yrs old perhaps the best solution for now is open her up and check the resin level in the tank. If there isn’t enough resin, I’ll add some more into the system. I don’t think I can check if any gravel in the tank unless I flash out all the resin.

Is there an easy way to check if gravel in the tank? Or if gravel can be add into the tank afterward since it is much heavier than resin?

I know I’m asking silly questions but just trying to get prepare before the job.

By the way, the reason I mention do you suggest replace a new system because the comment " 2.4 GPM DLFC" You mention 3.0+ GPM DLFC suggest. I cannot change the fact the it is only 2.4GPM DLFC.

Thanks

 

[Silversaver]

I just check the text message with the service guy. I’m sure he know the tank is 12x52 will need 2 cuft of resin. Now I’m a little confuse why only one bag add to the system… I’m not kind of guy stay and watch people doing their work….

If he does put 2 bag of resin, then why the water will not stays soft through out the whole cycle? With hardness setting at 25, each regeneration I’m getting about close to 1700 gallons. Sorry, but I’m confuse now.

 

[Reach4]

How hard is your water? How did you determine that?

Regarding gravel, I don't think there is a practical way to remove the old resin, and leave the gravel.

A DLFC is easy to change, and also easy to read the markings.

If you have an actual 25 grains of hardness, you are lucky to get 1700 gallons of softening. So answer the two questions, and we can discuss.

 

[Silversaver]

How hard is your water? How did you determine that?

Regarding gravel, I don't think there is a practical way to remove the old resin, and leave the gravel.

A DLFC is easy to change, and also easy to read the markings.

I am base on what local water company report average of 20 grains of hardness since it was on some well water. I set at 25 just to be sure I do t run off of soft water since I hardly have the same experience of soft water since day 1 compare with my old GE water softener. To be honest I wasn’t happy about Fleck 7000. That’s also the reason why I’m also thinking about replacing it. Seriously I don’t really care about the serviceability on water softener…etc I just want a system that works great and easy.

Why do I have to keep messing with salt setting concern about replacing resin…etc? Because I’m not getting the soft water as needed. That’s also why I don’t want to spend more money on this Fleck 7000.

 

[Reach4]

Try these settings:
System info (not programmed)
salt lb/cuft : 8 ; A choice ( efficiency vs capacity)
BLFC : 0.25 ; Brine Refill rate GPM
cubic ft resin : 2.0 ; Same as (nominal grains/32,000)
Raw hardness : 25.0 ; including iron etc
Estimated gal/day : 240.0 ; 60 gal per person typical calc
Estimated days each regen : 6.7 ; presuming days each use reserve capacity

Fleck 7000SXT Settings:
DF = Gal ; Units
VT = dF2b ; Downflw/Upflw, Double Backwash
CT = Fd ; Meter Delayed regen trigger
C = 48.0 ; capacity in 1000 grains
H = 30 ; Hardness grains after compensation
RS = cr ; Cr = base reserve on recent experience
CR = 0 ; 0 is default (leave it)
DO = 28 ; Day Override (typ 28 if no iron/Mn)
RT = 2:00 ; Regen time (default 2 AM)
B1 = 8 ; Backwash 1 (minutes)
Bd = 60 ; Brine draw minutes
B2 = 5 ; Backwash 2 (minutes)
RR = 6 ; Rapid Rinse minutes
BF = 21 ; Brine fill minutes
FM = t1.2 (usual) ; t1.2 is default flow meter

Note that changing the settings will make the valve presume it has just been regenerated. You may want to regenerate a bit early to compensate.

You were right to recognize that average hardness is not a good measure if there is more than one well, or the hardness changes much in the well. You can get a Hach 5-B test to test the hardness yourself. But in addition, there is something called "high hardness compensation". That is why I bumped H from 25 to 30.

 

[Silversaver]

Try these settings:
System info (not programmed)
salt lb/cuft : 8 ; A choice ( efficiency vs capacity)
BLFC : 0.25 ; Brine Refill rate GPM
cubic ft resin : 2.0 ; Same as (nominal grains/32,000)
Raw hardness : 25.0 ; including iron etc
Estimated gal/day : 240.0 ; 60 gal per person typical calc
Estimated days each regen : 6.7 ; presuming days each use reserve capacity

Fleck 7000SXT Settings:
DF = Gal ; Units
VT = dF2b ; Downflw/Upflw, Double Backwash
CT = Fd ; Meter Delayed regen trigger
C = 48.0 ; capacity in 1000 grains
H = 30 ; Hardness grains after compensation
RS = cr ; Cr = base reserve on recent experience
CR = 0 ; 0 is default (leave it)
DO = 28 ; Day Override (typ 28 if no iron/Mn)
RT = 2:00 ; Regen time (default 2 AM)
B1 = 8 ; Backwash 1 (minutes)
Bd = 60 ; Brine draw minutes
B2 = 5 ; Backwash 2 (minutes)
RR = 6 ; Rapid Rinse minutes
BF = 21 ; Brine fill minutes
FM = t1.2 (usual) ; t1.2 is default flow meter

Note that changing the settings will make the valve presume it has just been regenerated. You may want to regenerate a bit early to compensate.

You were right to recognize that average hardness is not a good measure if there is more than one well, or the hardness changes much in the well. You can get a Hach 5-B test to test the hardness yourself. But in addition, there is something called "high hardness compensation". That is why I bumped H from 25 to 30.

Thanks,

Let me look into the setting you provided. Here is my current setting:

Fleck 7000SXT Settings:
DF = Gal ; Units
VT = dF2b ; Downflw/Upflw, Double Backwash
CT = Fd ; Meter Delayed regen trigger
C = 48.0 ; capacity in 1000 grains
H = 25 ; Hardness grains after compensation
RS = SF
SF = 15
DO = 14 ; Day Override (typ 28 if no iron/Mn)
RT = 3:00 ; Regen time (default 2 AM)
B1 = 10 ; Backwash 1 (minutes)
Bd = 60 ; Brine draw minutes
B2 = 5 ; Backwash 2 (minutes)
RR = 5 ; Rapid Rinse minutes
BF = 32 ; Brine fill minutes base on 0.25 BLFC
FM = t1.2 (usual) ; t1.2 is default flow meter

RS your setting is rc, let me check on how rc setting means.

I see you have increase hardness to 30, but decrease salt brine time to 21. That is about 15.75lbs of salt use. I recall my installer uses rc setting when the system were initially setup, but I change back to SF to 15%. Looks like use this setting will use less salt per regeneration but regenerate more frequently.

 

[Reach4]

There is a third way of setting up the RS, and it is the method I use. The 180 below is only an example, but it is in gallons.

RS = rc ; rc says use gallons vs percent
RC = 180 ; Reserve capacity gallons

 

[Silversaver]

Go it. It is different way to setting up the reserve capacity.

Your recommend setting seems to use less salt per regeneration but more frequently to ensure water stays soft.