Clean-Out in Vertical Pipe

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amkazen

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Hi,

What 3” schedule 40 PVC fitting do I use to add a clean-out to my houses drain system?

I just bought a 1971 2-story, 3,200 sq ft home on a full finished basement on well & septic. There are currently no drain issues so I am being proactive.

It was identified by the drain pipe camera inspection during the house sale closing process that a partial blockage exists just about where the pipe exits from under the house. This specific location was estimated by the length of the camera cable.

When we first moved in the musty smell was strong, although not overpowering. I poured 5 gallons of water into the basement laundry room floor drain and it drained slowly but the 5 gallons drained. Last week I noticed the basement musty smell was becoming stronger so I ported water into the drain again. But, this time 3 gallons was too much and would spread out from the drain as I poured the water.

I called the company that did the camera inspection to come snake the cat iron basement laundry room drain. That helped but that guy was the same guy who had done the initial camera infection. He told me the main drain line that has the blockage does not have a large clean-out where he can put a larger snake to clear that blockage.

He recommended putting a clean-out in the vertical pipe in the corner of the basement laundry room that drains the 1st & 2nd floors the basement laundry room floor drain connects to this pipe under the floor.

I bought a 3” rubber wye to put in the vertical pipe pipe but… I just had a post come thru my FB feed that says wyes are not allowed in vertical pipes because sewage gas could get trapped in the wye.

So, what 3” schedule 40 PVC fitting do I use to add a clean-out to my houses drain system?

TIA
 

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Reach4

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I bought a 3” rubber wye to put in the vertical pipe pipe but… I just had a post come thru my FB feed that says wyes are not allowed in vertical pipes because sewage gas could get trapped in the wye.
Nothing wrong with a wye for a cleanout. Maybe ask the poster for a citation to support that claim.

There is a problem with the flex fitting, however, but your PVC will fix that.

I presume your basement laundry/utility sink, and whatever is off to the left (probably standpipe for washing machine) , have an AAV for venting the trap.
 

amkazen

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Hi,

What is the problem with the flex fitting? It is not yet installed so I can exchange it if there is a better option. I figured the flex fitting would be best to be able to slip into the vertical pipe since it is rigid schedule 40 PVC pipe.

There is no Air Admittance Valve (AAV) for venting and yes, there is a open PVC pipe that the washer hose just hangs in. What trap should be vented by an AAV? This is, again, in the basement, at the lowest point of all the drains in the house with the exception of the basement laundry room floor drain and the basement 3/4 shower. If an AAV is needed, where is the best location for it?

Thank you.
 

wwhitney

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What is the problem with the flex fitting? It is not yet installed so I can exchange it if there is a better option. I figured the flex fitting would be best to be able to slip into the vertical pipe since it is rigid schedule 40 PVC pipe.
The flex fitting is (a) not approved for use (I'm kind of amazed they are able to sell them) and (b) not strong enough to maintain position in the stack--the top segment could sag and squash the flex fitting, or the two ends could separate laterally.

You need to use a PVC wye (or cleanout tee, or san-tee), with short segments of PVC pipe in the top and bottom, and two banded rubber couplings, e.g. Fernco Proflex or Mission Bandseal. The rubber sides are constrained by a solid stainless steel band that provides the necessary fixity for the fitting.


There is no Air Admittance Valve (AAV) for venting and yes, there is a open PVC pipe that the washer hose just hangs in. What trap should be vented by an AAV?
That "open PVC pipe" (standpipe) better have a trap between it and the the rest of the drain system, otherwise it is a source of sewer gases in the basement.

Both the sink trap and that standpipe trap require a vent. Using an AAV is easier that getting a vent through the roof, and for some configurations you could use a single AAV for both traps, but it looks like your configuration would make that difficult. Could be possible if you want to move the washer and/or laundry sink around and don't mind redoing the the horizontal branch. Or you could just drain the clothes washer directly into the laundry sink, then you'd just need one AAV for the laundry sink trap. BTW, does the water equipment to the right involve a backwash function that needs a drain, and does it drain directly into the laundry sink? [If it drains into its own standpipe with trap, that trap would need a vent as well.]

This is, again, in the basement, at the lowest point of all the drains in the house with the exception of the basement laundry room floor drain and the basement 3/4 shower. If an AAV is needed, where is the best location for it?
Given the issues with venting your washer and laundry sink, I'm inclined to ask how the basement shower and floor drain are vented; they may also require fixing. But to comment on that you'd need to provide info on how they tie in, ideally an isometric or pseudo-isometric drawing of all the DWV in the basement and under the slab.

Anyway, just considering the washer and the laundry sink, the easiest solution is one AAV for each. For the laundry sink, I can see in the picture that after the trap u-bend, you have the trap outlet elbow, and then almost immediately a quarter bend for the drainage to turn downward. Replace the quarter bend with a san-tee, and at the top connection add a short rise and an AAV. The AAV needs to be accessible and at least 4" above the trap arm (the short pipe between the trap outlet elbow and the new san-tee).

For the washer, I can't see the configuration, but if you have vertical standpipe - trap - horizontal trap arm that wraps around the corner, add an upright combo tee-wye (barrel is horizontal, side entry points up) to that horizontal trap arm (all this should be 2", so the combo should be within 2" of fall from the trap outlet, that's a generally requirement on vent location for a trap). The combo can be 2x2x1-1/2, and again add a short riser and an AAV so that the AAV is at least 4" above the trap arm.

Cheers, Wayne
 

amkazen

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amkazen

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Ok, I am returning the rubber wye and will get a PVC wye with two short sections of PVC pipe in each end of the wye, with two PVC slip joints, or the two banded rubber couplings.

These are all the pictures & I hope they make sense, starting from the right and moving to the left, for the most part (until it gets to the washing machine drain pipe) then it goes to the right. the vertical 3" OVC drain pipe is in the center, and the basement laundry room floor drain ties into the 3" drain pipe somewhere under the concrete floor.

There is a p-trap at the bottom of the washer stand pipe. Yea - something is correct

Yes, the Culligan water softener/water equipment to the right does involve a backwash function that needs a drain. It drains into the washer stand-pipe and not the utility sink. That drain hose is the black one that loops tall into the stand pipe.

The washer drain pipe is just an elbow in the horizontal run along the wall in the corner behind the radon gas vent pipe.

Makes me wonder how this system operated for the past 54 years - the things we know today but did not know back then. Once this is corrected the system will be so efficient it will be confused! ha ha

Again, the goal is to figure out to get a larger drain cleanout in so the larger line can get snaked - currently the two small cleanouts will not allow for a larger snake which as a result cannot get the larger line completely clean. The second goal is to fix any issues discovered in this thread, such as the lack of an AAV.

Thank you for the help.
 

Reach4

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The two banded/shielded couplings will be easier to work with.

The two traps should have AAVs. The one for the WM looks easier. The one for the sink... Maybe you could incorporate Magic Trap. https://rectorseal.com/magic-trap-kit/

A pro might use a socket Saver to give an alternative.

The purpose of AAVs is to prevent the traps from siphoning out. If they siphon out, you can get sewer smells. So if I did not smell stuff, I might postpone that. But you do mention a smell. Consider draping the sink and standpipe with a cheap plastic dropcloth to see if the smell is stronger under the dropcloth.

You may just need a dehumidifier. If you can mount that high enough, or get one with a pump, you could drain into the laundry sink. That gets rid of the water, and side bonus is that it refills your trap.

I would also like to see that thing after the galvanized elbow. If that is check valve, you probably would be better off to remove/gut that. That is a frequently discussed item.
 

DJ Metal

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You might want these parts, but I'm NOT saying you have to buy anything from H.D, because I know many folks dislike H.D..
These links are only for reference for seeing the type of parts you can use.

Here's a 3" sch. 40 DWV PVC Wye you can use...


And than glue this 3" sch 40 DWV PVC fitting (pictured at the link below) into the port you plan to use as the "cleanout" and use plumbers tape to seal the threads on the cap, but, you know, don't glue the cap threads. lol


You also don't have to waste $ on a 10' length of 3" sch. 40 DWV PVC for a small job like that, you can go with a 3"x2' length piece to save yourself a few bucks.

I'd suggest you cut two 6" pieces off of it and glue one into each end of the Wye to clamp onto.
I say 6 ", because that way you'd have enough to both glue into the Wye and to also clamp onto...


Here are clamps for cast iron or galvanized pipe to PVC sch. 40 pipe, naturally you would want two of these...


Hope that helps?
Good luck!
 

DJ Metal

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Oh, forgot to mention, I installed these types of P-traps (link below) for both our washing machine drain pipe and slop sink drain about 30 years ago and they've held up great.
Between cat and dog hair, the kids, the wife's super long hair, the little plugs on them have come in real handy and time saving quite a few times for me over the decades, whatever isn't right there in the trap to clean out, I can still fit a sink and tub drain snake thru it and pull a clog out in no time at all...

 

wwhitney

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