Are Offset Closet Flanges Efficient Or Trouble?

[PGB1]

Hello All!
At home, we are re-working a bathroom. The toilet will be moved. The move is 3" toward the stack and over 1.25". My trouble is that the length of the pipe from stack to toilet and the height to the subfloor is too small for rolling offsets to move 1.25" Unfortunately, some years ago I replaced the bell-and-spigot with schedule 40 PVC, so i can't simply rotate the waste pipe fitting into the stack.

I studied rolling 45, 22-1/2, 60 etc. No luck, so I thought about an offset closet flange. The ones I looked at all have a shelf below the inlet. It looks like the material drops from the toilet onto the shelf, then I suppose water washes the shelf.

Somehow that does not seem like it would work well with a modern toilet, especially power flush. Do you guys know if there is an offset closet flange that is not troublesome?

Thanks For Helping!
Paul

 

[Jeff H Young]

I dont like them but installed a bunch havent really had problems to blame on the offset . Ive always been told they are illegal But personaly just been beliving they are illegal and dont know whether its a fact or not

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Sylvan]

I used them for decades never had an issue

 

[Reach4]

Some are better than others.
How much offset are you looking for -- 1 inch, or 1.5 inch? I really did not get that from your first paragraph, unless you are looking for 1.25.

You might make a sketch, or take a photo, of what you are dealing with. Two 22.5s or two 45s or a 45 in series with a 22.5 may get you right to where you want to be.

 

[John Gayewski]

Can you take a picture of the piping problem? A 3"offset rolled 1.25" with a 45 fitting is 4.625" or so center to center. But I'm not sure I'm using the right numbers for that math. If we could see the problem clearly we might have better solutions.

Offset flanges work fine, but generally aren't used unless necessary.

 

[Jeff H Young]

we always hid them from inspectors LOL

 

[Reach4]

https://www.oatey.com/products/oatey-pvc-offset-closet-flange-stainless-steel-ring-471781514
https://www.siouxchief.com/products/drainage/residential/closet-flanges/offset-flange


PushTite is the dark horse. It would be nice if you ever wanted to change the flooring. This one is a 4-inch inside, but could be used with a 4x3 closet elbow. https://www.supplyhouse.com/Sioux-C...-Stainless-Steel-Ring-Full-Flush-1-1-2-Offset

None of these has a shelf.

 

[PGB1]

Thanks Everyone for replying & helping. I very much appreciate it.

The plan is (was?) move the center of the pipe 1-1/4" over.
Attached are photos. I'm not the greatest at picture taking, so there are notes.
There isn't much length for rolling fittings before the closet ell meets the tree. (10-1/8" hub to hub on horizontal)
Height is even worse. (5-1/2" joist bay & ca. 6-1/2" top of horizontal pipe to sub floor)

Thanks Again for helping me not mess up this project.
Paul

 

[wwhitney]

A 3" street 22.5 going into a regular 22.5 can create an offset of 1.2" with a run of 4.5"; plus hubs that requires 7.5" of length. So with 10" of exposed horizontal pipe in the existing configuration, you have room to insert those in the horizontal run to get your offset.

Using a quarter bend for the closet bend, and rolling it 22.5 degrees to a street 22.5 to go vertical, won't work. It will give you about 2" of offset.

But you could instead use one 22.5 horizontally, then a rolled quarter bend, and then a 22.5 to go vertical. The horizontal offset resulting could be 2" away from the target, to end up ~3.25" from the target, and then a short piece of pipe between the quarter bend a regular 22.5 to go vertical would shift you back 3.25". More complicated than the double 22.5 horizontal offset, not sure if it's worth it.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Reach4]

Putting a shielded coupling in line, rather than gluing it all, gives you the potential for do-overs and rotation.

Charlotte ConnecTite or similar are like DWV SharkBite push-on connectors. They can be rotated and removed. So more to consider.

 

[Jeff H Young]

what???? cut the pipe 3 1/4 inches glue the coupling on and shove the pipe over a 1 1/4 or wherever you want it. problem solved

 

[wwhitney]

what???? cut the pipe 3 1/4 inches glue the coupling on and shove the pipe over a 1 1/4 or wherever you want it. problem solved

You're saying you could shove the pipe laterally 1-1/4" over 10" of run? That would be over 7 degree of angle (arctan(1.25/10)), surely that's too much for a solvent weld coupling?

Cheers, Wayne

 

[PGB1]

Thank You Reach4 for the links and the PushTite flange. It's interesting looking and could prove very helpful if I can't get things aligned. (Also like the SuppyHouse link. I've been buying hydronic & controls from them since before Mr. Meyerowitcz took Plumbing Goods on line (eventually PexSupply, then SupplyHouse). They're always great to deal with.

Thanks Wayne for taking time to list the options and measurements. I very much appreciate the effort you put into measuring. I think your 22-1/2 combination may line up well.

I like your idea of ConnecTite type, Reach4. Looks quicker & perhaps more solid than Mission or no-hubs with adapters or Fernco's. I try to avoid Fernco, No-Hub or Mission unless I'm transitioning. I'm leaning now toward ConecTite.

The biggest bonus is I can test fit dry, mark alignment indoors- priming and gluing outside where my wife won't have to breathe solvents (very compromised respiratory system).

I also like Jeff's suggestion of cut short & shove.

After reading these helpful replies, I think I'll try a combination of each:
Cut Short, ConnecTite type, street & regular 22-1/2.

Thanks Again Everyone! I learned a lot today.
Paul

 

[Jeff H Young]

assuming you need to move the flange 3 inches one way and an 1 1/4 to side I hope I understood I didnt see need for an offset flange

 

[Jeff H Young]

You're saying you could shove the pipe laterally 1-1/4" over 10" of run? That would be over 7 degree of angle (arctan(1.25/10)), surely that's too much for a solvent weld coupling?

Cheers, Wayne

I think it might be too much but a good chance its got give didnt notice the other lines it might push over pretty easy looks like 10 inches hub to hub not center to center

 

[PGB1]

The project got stalled for life's other events, but soon I hope to return to it. With all of the information you each supplied, I'm now sure it'll work out well. I'll post back what I did to connect.
Thanks Again All,
Paul

 

[PGB1]

If you all don't mind, I have a follow-up question regarding the flange choice.

Because the existing horizontal arm is at a slight angle, if I use a ten inch rough-in toilet the offset can be made with a 22-1/2 and a street 22-1/2. No offset flange will be needed. She Who Has More Sense pointed out that the 10" looks better in the small room, too. (Experimenting with the old toilet shows that it does look better.)

To make it work, the drop from the toilet will come down to the level of the horizontal. (Like the existing is in the 2nd photo in Post #8). The 3" long-sweep elbow will be at the level of the horizontal. (In photo #2 post #8)

A four inch drop pipe will crash into a hydronic line that I can move, but would rather not. Three inch, with a ten inch rough-in toilet, will just miss the hydronic. Therefore, a 4 x 3 closet ell is not the first choice.

My idea to ask about is:
A flange with stainless ring that fits over 3" makes more sense to me than one that fits inside because if the flange ever is damaged or rusts out, I can cut it off flush with the floor & install a 3" flange that fits inside the 3" riser pipe. We had a rust out on a 2nd floor closet flange with a stainless steel ring. It must have been 400 series stainless, since it rusted.

Does my idea make sense, or am I going somewhere I'll regret?

Thanks Again,
Paul

 

[John Gayewski]

My two cents is, we never use inside 3"flanges unless there is literally no practical way to do it without them. We always aim for a 3x4 as it gives you the most flexibility for the future and all of the options keep you at the 3" minimum opening for a toilet.

That said I haven't used an inside 3"toilet flange, I haven't had to. I don't know that they are bad as other people I work with so believe.

 

[Reach4]

Check out these similar flanges: plumbest C40-320 3inch pipe outside.
Jones Stephens C403

JONES STEPHENS 3 in. x 2 in. No Caulk Code Blue Cast Iron Water Closet (Toilet) Flange for Cast Iron or Plastic Pipe C40-320 - The Home Depot

Jones Stephens has built its reputation over the years as a leader in the plumbing industry, providing the market with thousands of products to complete any project. If you need it, we got it. The No Caulk Code Blue Closet Flange makes installment quick and clean with no caulking involved and...

www.homedepot.com

So these are outside compression 3 inch cast iron flanges. If you need to remove them, you can. No glue.


You would have to cut the flooring to clear out space for the stuff that sticks out. You would glue a piece of pipe into your hub. Do you have the vertical space? I do not know.

 

[PGB1]

Thank You Reach4 & John for answering with helpful information & for the flange link.

Thanks for the advice about avoiding a 3" inside flange, John. The only practical way for me is a 3" drop from the toilet to avoid moving a hydronic line. So, I can't use 4 x 3 closet bend, which would leave lots of options for replacing a flange later.

Ideally, I'd like a 4 x3 closet bend, but a hydronic line is in the way of 4" pipe just above the elbow.
I thought about a 3 x 4 reducing coupling upside down with a 4" pipe going up- if I have the space to fit it above the hydronic line. But somehow that seems wrong. (Don't know why it'd be wrong, since 4 x 3 closet bends are used.)

As planned so far there will be 3" pipe coming out of the long sweep ell, so the Code Blue you linked Reach4 will work well. The way the gasket tightens is similar to a few I've used on chiller re-pump flanges & they seal well with very good pull-out resistance.

The cut sheet doesn't say how tall the ring is so a question is if the plastic flange is thin enough that the wax won't squish too thin when the toilet is set. I've had that happen with a plastic flange or two.

They seem very handy for people who goof like me. I wish they had those when I had to pour for flanges back in the day. (Way back)