Run out of room for closet flange on stack and what the heck is this mysterious fitting?

[pazure]

I'm sure this happens a lot. A bathroom renovation pulls up the old closet flange only to find out there is not enough room for a new closet flange to attach on the existing stack. See picture.

I've got all the measurement details in the included drawing.

Here is my plan
1) Cut the 3" pipe where it disappears into the old closet flange. That leaves a 1" 7/16 pipe stub coming from the 3" elbow.
2) Go with a stopless repair hub-to-hub coupling, mounting it on pipe stub and bottoming it out on elbow hub. Is the 1" 7/6" remaining pipe enough to form a good seal?
3) Measure and cut to size the spigot of the closet flange so it butts up against 1" 7/16" pipe inside coupling.

Thoughts?

As for the mystery fitting, is that a Schedule 80 22.5° fitting? Plumber must have run out of Schedule 40. I suppose they have the same melt temperatures.

 

[pazure]

Since this doesn't seem to be getting any replies, maybe I'll simplify the question.

I have 1 7/16" of 3" pipe coming out from a 3" elbow. Is that going to be enough pipe to join up - in some way - with a closet flange from above? Will that insertion depth be enough for a good seal?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

What is that pipe from above carrying? I am concerned about venting for the toilet.

As for the mystery fitting, is that a Schedule 80 22.5° fitting? Plumber must have run out of Schedule 40. I suppose they have the same melt temperatures.

I was wondering if that was ABS, possibly joined with green transition cement. I see no green, and I see no purple for primer either-- although there is clear primer.

Whatever you do, you might replace 4 inch with 3 inch to gain a bit of extra space. You would use a closet bend.

 

[wwhitney]

Since this doesn't seem to be getting any replies, maybe I'll simplify the question.

I have 1 7/16" of 3" pipe coming out from a 3" elbow. Is that going to be enough pipe to join up - in some way - with a closet flange from above?

Yes, your coupling idea is sound as the normal hub depth on a 3" plastic fitting is 1-1/2".

It may be worth noting that if you implement your plan, the next person to replace the closet flange will have a harder time. Although I don't see a method to connect your new closet flange via solvent welding that doesn't have that issue. You could use a Proflex 3005-33 banded rubber coupling to connect your 3" spigot closet flange to your 3" pipe stub, that would be a reversible connection.

Also, if for some reason you'd like to have more than 1-7/16" of pipe stub coming out of the quarter bend, you could try cutting through the pipe and closet flange just below the subfloor. There's a chance that the remaining ring of the hub of the closet flange could then be separated from the pipe, if the solvent weld joint was not that well done. But don't count on it.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[wwhitney]

Whatever you do, you might replace 4 inch with 3 inch to gain a bit of extra space. You would use a closet bend.

The photo shows the existing quarter bend is 3", per the embossed numbering visible.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[pazure]

What is that pipe from above carrying? I am concerned about venting for the toilet.

That 1.5" pipe is from the bathtub overflow. I don't want too much attention to be paid to that mystery fitting. My main concern is the closet flange issue. On; further research,l I believe the fitting is a high pressure Schedule 80 grey fitting and is definitely PVC. I've seen a number of clear solvent welds in this house (including in the picture) and believe that's the same. The house was built in the early 80's and I suppose it wasn't a requirement in this jurisdiction? I know it is now. Thanks for your input Reach4!

 

[pazure]

You could use a Proflex 3005-33 banded rubber coupling to connect your 3" spigot closet flange to your 3" pipe stub, that would be a reversible connection.

That is precisely what I was thinking, and I like the compact size of the coupling you linked. I'm not a fan of solvent welds, especially on old work. I've used a longer Fernco on another toilet, but that had plenty of room underneath the subfloor. What you are looking at in the picture is a 10" joist space, and is the ceiling of the laundry room. I'm going to have to uncover more drywall to be able to use, perhaps a wire to cut since it's so cramped. In the past, I've used a wire with a large screw clamp acting as the "guide" and I get some nice straight cuts out of it.

I also really like your idea of cutting into the flange slightly into the hub.I had never thought of that. It could perhaps buy me .25" extra pipe to grab onto. But again - it's going to be tight to pull that wire.

I do believe you've solved it for me. A 3" Proflex rubber coupling along with an extended barrel closet flange, custom cut to the length to bridge the gap. I could even do all the tile work in the bathroom, and at the end, only then clamp the Proflex onto the final closet flange, because as we all know, the flange bottom sits on top of the tiles.

That's not what the plumber I had over for a whole house repipe told me to do. Put the flange "even" with the tiles he advised. The pros over at John Bridge tile forum disagree though.

Thank you kindly sir. I really do appreciate it.

 

[wwhitney]

I've used a longer Fernco on another toilet, but that had plenty of room underneath the subfloor.

The longer, unshielded rubber couplings are only for use underground. Above ground you need the fully banded type, which as you say are shorter.

That's not what the plumber I had over for a whole house repipe told me to do. Put the flange "even" with the tiles he advised.

I had one instance where the thicknss of a PVC closet flange on top of the tile floor did not work with the particular toilet we wanted to install. That toilet must have had a particularly shallow recess at the horn. But if you use a stainless steel closet flange (which is recommended), yes, that should be on top of the tile. Bottom line: I'd say 0" to 1/4" above the floor for the top of closet flange.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[pazure]

Yup. I only use banded couplings, and the kind with the flat band, not the ones that have ridges in them. Not sure how that assists in the clamping force.

Yeah, some of those plastic flanges can be way too fat. It's the adjustable stainless ones for me.

Good to see I'm doing it all the right way - with the help of pros like you.