Offset Toilet Flange Cemented Into Subfloor Needs to be Raised

[remodelrepairtutor]

Long time reader, first-time post!

I am remodeling a bathroom for my inlaws, who need a tub shower conversion so they don't fall when getting into the tub. As part of the remodel, I noticed that a troublesome toilet that had previously caused the floor to be replaced was leaking again (pictures attached). This toilet/flange has been repaired by two previous contractors using what looks like a hack job. Once I removed the floor, what we have looks like an offset flange cemented into the subfloor to give the toilet room from the shower. In the attached picture, I removed some of the ABS pipe sticking out in the image. It was not well fit, was glued to the inner part of the flange, and was at one point leaking.

Issues:

1. The original flange was set on a linoleum floor and was not level. You can see the outer parts of the flange, but the original anchor points (metal or ABS seem to have been removed)
2. Since the original installation, the wood floor in the rest of the house was replaced, and instead of pulling the other floor up or floating it...for some reason, they threw down plywood and then nailed the floor over it. As a result, the bathroom floor was now covered in wood and was raised 1.5 inches above the concrete subfloor.
3. Since then, the toilet has leaked and caused mold issues, resulting in the bathroom's wood being replaced.
4. When replacing the shower and floor this week, I saw that it was leaking again from what seems to be an offset flange in the subfloor that they tried to glue ABS to the inside if the offset flange (that never really fit snugly as it is not the same size) and then glue another flange on top of it + a wax ring which leaves room for error and leaks to raise the toilet to the right height.

I will use a cement board to raise the floor and waterproof it on top of it, but I need to increase the toilet THE RIGHT WAY to what will be about 1 1/2 inches above the subfloor. The problem I have is what I think is the offset flange. It is mortared into the subfloor, and the opening pictured does not give much overlap for ABS to glue to...and the ABS I can find is not the right size to fit snugly into the opening to get a good glue joint. I have seen that there are spacers/risers that I could use silicon two, 1/2 inch risers together to raise the height, but that seems like an extreme hack. Using a twist-and-fit extension raises the toilet too much and I am not sure they are made to work inside an offset flange that is pictured here.

What is the right way to fix the problem? The last thing I want to do is raise the floor, tile it, and have a leaking toilet that causes it to be replaced again. Your help and ideas on the options and the right way to fix it would be very much appreciated.

 

[Reach4]

Are those photos of the same place in chronological order, with IMG_4252.jpeg being the current state? What is the ID of what you have -- 3 inches?

I presume you are in California with the floor on a slab (no basement or crawlspace).

Were you intending to be rid of the offset?

 

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[remodelrepairtutor]

Yeah, pictures were taken of what it looked like when I removed the toilet and then started to uncover the mess caused by the stacking flanges and wax rings used to raise the flange to the raised wood floor. As I guess 2 previous contractors did the work (no idea who they were or if they were legit), there seemed to not have a good way to raise the original offset flange cemented into the floor. As the original floor was vinyl, the height of the flange was never an issue. When someone put in a wood floor, they raised everything, which is what caused the issue that has never really been addressed.

The house is in CA with no basement, so there is no access. The offset flange seems to be connected to a 3-inch, 90-degree street via a coupling to make more room between the tub and toilet. I 'think' the only legit way to do this to raise it 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 inches is to chip out the concrete subfloor, cut out the offset flange, and add a coupling to raise the pipe and connect a new offset flange. If so, then how do you connect the offset flange to rest on the top of the finished tile, as you can't push directly down to set the flange? If it were a straight pipe I would leave space around the pipe (wrap it, etc.) and then can lower the flange but since it is offset, I am at a loss as I will need to add 2 sheets of 1/2 cement board (unless anyone has any other suggestions) to raise the floor and dont see how I can tie in the offset flange from above and have it rest on the finished floor.

I worry about adding any extension kits with yet another new floor and have the same thing happen in 2 or so years.

Thanks for your thoughts and response. I value the experience in this forum.

 

[remodelrepairtutor]

Yeah, pictures were taken of what it looked like when I removed the toilet and then started to uncover the mess caused by the stacking flanges and wax rings used to raise the flange to the raised wood floor. As I guess 2 previous contractors did the work (no idea who they were or if they were legit), there seemed to not have a good way to raise the original offset flange cemented into the floor. As the original floor was vinyl, the height of the flange was never an issue. When someone put in a wood floor, they raised everything, which is what caused the issue that has never really been addressed.

The house is in CA with no basement, so there is no access. The offset flange seems to be connected to a 3-inch, 90-degree street via a coupling to make more room between the tub and toilet. I 'think' the only legit way to do this to raise it 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 inches is to chip out the concrete subfloor, cut out the offset flange, and add a coupling to raise the pipe and connect a new offset flange. If so, then how do you connect the offset flange to rest on the top of the finished tile, as you can't push directly down to set the flange? If it were a straight pipe I would leave space around the pipe (wrap it, etc.) and then can lower the flange but since it is offset, I am at a loss as I will need to add 2 sheets of 1/2 cement board (unless anyone has any other suggestions) to raise the floor and dont see how I can tie in the offset flange from above and have it rest on the finished floor.

I worry about adding any extension kits with yet another new floor and have the same thing happen in 2 or so years.

Thanks for your thoughts and response. I value the experience in this forum.

And if I don't backfill the cement to give me a shot of sliding the offset flange at an angle to connect into the pipe while still resting on the finished floor..., then how would I secure it - silicon?

 

[Reach4]

With what you had before, I would have considered putting some extension rings with silicone RTV in place, and feeding that via a Danco Hydroseat placed above the new finished floor.

With your latest photo, I don't know what can be done without busting concrete.
1. What is the ID and OD of what remains?
2. Is the thing that you have now centered on a good spot for the new closet flange to be centered?

 

[remodelrepairtutor]

With what you had before, I would have considered putting some extension rings with silicone RTV in place, and feeding that via a Danco Hydroseat placed above the new finished floor.

With your latest photo, I don't know what can be done without busting concrete.
1. What is the ID and OD of what remains?
2. Is the thing that you have now centered on a good spot for the new closet flange to be centered?

I was considering this, but became nervous as the seal has now failed from 2 previous contractors doing weird extensions onto the mortared offset flange (I dont think the inside of an offset flange is inteneded to be extended from using 3 inch PVC pipe/glue which is what they did) so want to ensure whatever I do there is no way they will need to pull up the floor for the third time. I could be being too cautious as what you are saying with silicon gives a solid connection the only potential issue is the offset flange in concrete is slightly askew which also likely contributed to the seal problems.

I went ahead and took out the concrete around the flange and removed it...now, I have a 90 degree three inch coupling that I am trying to remove the connecting pipe that was glued....as it has been there for a while it is not coming off easy so rather than wreck the piple, i tried to listen to my gut and ordered this off amazon which I hope can get a clean cut and remove the welded 3 inch inside the 50 degree so that I can extend it up to the right level. Is there a better tool to do the job?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BMFZF43M?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

 

[remodelrepairtutor]

I was considering this, but became nervous as the seal has now failed from 2 previous contractors doing weird extensions onto the mortared offset flange (I dont think the inside of an offset flange is inteneded to be extended from using 3 inch PVC pipe/glue which is what they did) so want to ensure whatever I do there is no way they will need to pull up the floor for the third time. I could be being too cautious as what you are saying with silicon gives a solid connection the only potential issue is the offset flange in concrete is slightly askew which also likely contributed to the seal problems.

I went ahead and took out the concrete around the flange and removed it...now, I have a 90 degree three inch coupling that I am trying to remove the connecting pipe that was glued....as it has been there for a while it is not coming off easy so rather than wreck the piple, i tried to listen to my gut and ordered this off amazon which I hope can get a clean cut and remove the welded 3 inch inside the 50 degree so that I can extend it up to the right level. Is there a better tool to do the job?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BMFZF43M?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

I still have no idea how to set an offset flange on the finished tile when you have the ABS moartared in a subfloor as the flange will need to be supported and floor raised 1 inch + tile / mortar to give a finished height of just shy of 1 1/2..

Not sure if you have any POV there....to raise the floor I was going to use cememt board as most want dry pack/cement to be about 2 inches to work but forums online gave me pause as I was planning just to mortar the cememt board to the concrete but not screw it in....but that may fail under tile so dont think I want to do that. Then I thought some type of flooring adhesive may work better and last to keep the cement board in place as it works with wood floors. Another option I was looking at was Wedi boards but not sure stacking 2, 1/2 together under tile and mortaring that to the floor will be a good solution. If not, I guess I can just use leveling compound like levelquick which my gut is telling me may be the right thing to do. I would rather use cememt board or wedi as it would be eaiser for someone else to remove if they ever want to remove the wood floor that was raised and bring the overall floor down to original subfloor. That said, I cant find wedi anywhere in CA and the cost to ship 4 or 5 boards is crazy.

 

[Reach4]

I went ahead and took out the concrete around the flange and removed it...now, I have a 90 degree three inch coupling that I am trying to remove the connecting pipe that was glued....

Is that bend rising up to where you would want a new flange centered? Or if not, how much offset would you need-- 1 inch, 1.5 inches?

 

[remodelrepairtutor]

I still have no idea how to set an offset flange on the finished tile when you have the ABS moartared in a subfloor as the flange will need to be supported and floor raised 1 inch + tile / mortar to give a finished height of just shy of 1 1/2..

Not sure if you have any POV there....to raise the floor I was going to use cememt board as most want dry pack/cement to be about 2 inches to work but forums online gave me pause as I was planning just to mortar the cememt board to the concrete but not screw it in....but that may fail under tile so dont think I want to do that. Then I thought some type of flooring adhesive may work better and last to keep the cement board in place as it works with wood floors. Another option I was looking at was Wedi boards but not sure stacking 2, 1/2 together under tile and mortaring that to the floor will be a good solution. If not, I guess I can just use leveling compound like levelquick which my gut is telling me may be the right thing to do. I would rather use cememt board or wedi as it would be eaiser for someone else to remove if they ever want to remove the wood floor that was raised and bring the overall floor down to original subfloor. That said, I cant find wedi anywhere in CA and the cost to ship 4 or 5 boards is crazy.

Sadly, no. The initial offset was used to move the toilet, perhaps 2-3 inches to the side, to give more room between the shower and toilet. Ideally, I would like to keep that, but I would love to be able to go straight down with the flange. I am connecting the toilet into a 3-inch 90 at a fixed depth, I can't see a way to shift it other than an offset flange, as I tried looking at a 45-degree flange to a 3-inch 45 hub x spigot street elbow that went into the 90-degree in the floor.....but it raised it too much. Additionally, the connection between the flange elbow seemed loose, as if they were not intended to be glued together.

I would love to avoid using an offset flange if there is a trusted way.

 

[remodelrepairtutor]

Sadly, no. The initial offset was used to move the toilet, perhaps 2-3 inches to the side, to give more room between the shower and toilet. Ideally, I would like to keep that, but I would love to be able to go straight down with the flange. I am connecting the toilet into a 3-inch 90 at a fixed depth, I can't see a way to shift it other than an offset flange, as I tried looking at a 45-degree flange to a 3-inch 45 hub x spigot street elbow that went into the 90-degree in the floor.....but it raised it too much. Additionally, the connection between the flange elbow seemed loose, as if they were not intended to be glued together.

I would love to avoid using an offset flange if there is a trusted way.

I will take pictures in an hour and can attach them when I return to the house.

 

[Reach4]

If you cut out more concrete, you could position this where you want. You could install a 4x3 closet bend, and have lots of good choices. You would need this to get more than 1.5 inches of offset.

With a 4x3 closet bend, you could use an offset flange Pushtite fits in 4 inch.
889GPOM No 3 inch version of that.


Offset flanges that I know of offset by a maximum of 1.5 inches.
Offset closet flange with stainless ring.

Oatey 43605
Sioux Chief 889-POM passes 3 inch ball. Outside 3 or inside 4.