Faucet sputtering after well pump replaced

[Chandra Combs]

The air is injected my the micronizer. It is that rectangular item with the hex cap on its side that Reach4 described the function of. In the center of the hex cap is a bypass valve that can be adjusted with a slotted screwdriver. The bypass valve regulates how much air the micronizer sucks in.

The solution is not to reduce the amount of air sucked in but rather to fix the item that is supposed to remove the air downstream. As Reach4 surmised, it is probably that item on the top of the tank.

You agreed with his prognosis so why the sudden reversal. I am simply supporting Reach4's prognosis.

BTW, micronizers and air removers are high maintenance items so I am surprised they worked for 15 years on neglect.

It has not been neglected. The well company has been here several times and checked the system along with working on other things (like the pressure tank). But, I will admit that I haven't called them out here on a yearly basis to service this system. It was working just fine, so I thought everything was OK. But, they will be here shortly, so I'll report back what they find. Thanks for the replies!

 

[Reach4]

The valve you referred to on the shorter tank HAS been replaced. That was their second attempt to fix this problem. Yet, 10 days later, here comes the spurting and air. That's why this problem has been soooooo frustrating - every attempt to fix the problem has given the same result - spurting in 7-10 days.

Is there any correlation to more air after you use a lot of water? If your water level in the well dropped to the intake of the well, that would probably be after higher water usage.

It is possible to clamp on clamp-around meter around one of the wires to the pump. Current would fall some as the water level fell during pumping, and would drop more as the pump started pumping air. That wire would be accessible under that pressure switch cover, and if the wire was not tight, you could clamp around the wire yourself. One wire only. Then run the hose to the yard to use a lot of water. Maybe record the meter with your cellphone camera movie mode for study at leisure. Rig up a tripod substitute to hold the phone.

Anyway, the device described in the link I put into #6 could be built by a plumber or water treatment specialist. That would not address why it became needed only recently.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Chandra Combs]

Is there any correlation to more air after you use a lot of water? If your water level in the well dropped to the intake of the well, that would probably be after higher water usage.

It is possible to clamp on clamp-around meter around one of the wires to the pump. Current would fall some as the water level fell during pumping, and would drop more as the pump started pumping air. That wire would be accessible under that pressure switch cover, and if the wire was not tight, you could clamp around the wire yourself. One wire only. Then run the hose to the yard to use a lot of water. Maybe record the meter with your cellphone camera movie mode for study at leisure. Rig up a tripod substitute to hold the phone.

Anyway, the device described in the link I put into #6 could be built by a plumber or water treatment specialist. That would not address why it became needed only recently.

I really don't see a correlation between water usage and the introduction of air. I don't really have anything that would spike my water usage any more than before the pump was replaced.

Guy just left and said it's....wait for it...

THE MICRONIZER!

He cut everything off and went outside to bleed the system. Then, he heard air in the well and said that the micronizer was the only thing that could be introducing air into the system when he had everything cut off. When he removed it, he said something was damaged/broken inside. He didn't have a replacement, so he did some on-the-spot tooling to keep it from leaking/sucking air, and said that would keep things air free for the next few days until the part comes in. When he re-pressurized everything and went back to the well - no more air sounds.

I'll give an update after the new micronizer is in place, and of course, 10 days later...

 

[Valveman]

Micronizer just adds air. There should be an Air Volume Control of some kind that lets excess air out?

 

[Chandra Combs]

Micronizer just adds air. There should be an Air Volume Control of some kind that lets excess air out?

Isn't that what this thing does?

 

[Reach4]

I really don't see a correlation between water usage and the introduction of air. I don't really have anything that would spike my water usage any more than before the pump was replaced.

The correlation would be if the water level drew down to the pump input.

Why now and not before? Possibilities (not probabilities) that come to mind:

• pump mounted higher?
• coincidence that the water table dropped (less likely)
• water leak into yard and not back into the well? Not likely either. With a pitless it would be very unlikely, and still seem unlikely with a well seal?

THE MICRONIZER!

He cut everything off and went outside to bleed the system. Then, he heard air in the well and said that the micronizer was the only thing that could be introducing air into the system when he had everything cut off. When he removed it, he said something was damaged/broken inside. He didn't have a replacement, so he did some on-the-spot tooling to keep it from leaking/sucking air, and said that would keep things air free for the next few days until the part comes in. When he re-pressurized everything and went back to the well - no more air sounds.

I'll give an update after the new micronizer is in place, and of course, 10 days later...

Let's hope. I am also skeptical. LLigetfa is the one with lots of micronizer experience.

 

[Chandra Combs]

The correlation would be if the water level drew down to the pump input.


Let's hope. I am also skeptical. LLigetfa is the one with lots of micronizer experience.

Unfortunately, I'm somewhat skeptical too. BUT, I know this company WILL find the problem and figure out how to fix it.

 

[Valveman]

Isn't that what this thing does?

View attachment 63083

Yes that is probably the air release valve. If it is not hissing every once in a while you will have too much air in the lines.

 

[LLigetfa]

Isn't that what this thing does?

View attachment 63083

It is possible that the device cannot release the air fast enough. Perhaps there is a check valve topside that we cannot see in the pics and the check valve in the new pump does not hold in the absence of pressure. The micronizer would then behave like a snifter valve in a drain-back system draining the pipe and filling it with air. That theory fits with the guy hearing air in the well.

Another possible scenario is there is a pressure drop during use to either too much delta on the pressure switch, or draw outpacing flow. The trapped air then expands and overwhelms the air release. I had a similar problem and resolved it by having two hydro-pneumatic tanks in series so when the AVC on the first tank cannot release the air fast enough, the one on the second tank does.

You could build a high loop and mount another air remover at the top of it.

 

[Chandra Combs]

It is possible that the device cannot release the air fast enough. Perhaps there is a check valve topside that we cannot see in the pics and the check valve in the new pump does not hold in the absence of pressure. The micronizer would then behave like a snifter valve in a drain-back system draining the pipe and filling it with air. That theory fits with the guy hearing air in the well.

Another possible scenario is there is a pressure drop during use to either too much delta on the pressure switch, or draw outpacing flow. The trapped air then expands and overwhelms the air release. I had a similar problem and resolved it by having two hydro-pneumatic tanks in series so when the AVC on the first tank cannot release the air fast enough, the one on the second tank does.

You could build a high loop and mount another air remover at the top of it.

WOW - Thanks for this very detailed reply. I'm going to print out this one along with several from Reach4 and let my guy read them when he comes back to install the micronizer. I am skeptical that the new part will fix this problem. I'm just not buying the "coincidence" that the micronizer failed at the exact same time as the well pump.

I still think there is something wrong AT THE PUMP itself. That is what changed that resulted in this problem, and I have to believe that is where the problem lies.

I can't thank you all enough for taking your time and expertise to help me with this.

 

[Valveman]

Again, if that little air release valve is not blowing air you need a new air release valve.

 

[Chandra Combs]

Again, if that little air release valve is not blowing air you need a new air release valve.

That valve was just replaced. That was their second attempt to fix this problem.

 

[Valveman]

Is it blowing any air? Maybe the line they screwed it onto is clogged.

 

[Bannerman]

I suspect the air release valve will have a small hole in the cap for the air to be released through (that hole maybe what can be seen in the photo). If the black cap is screwed down tightly, that will prevent air from being released. Check the cap to ensure it is loosened off about 1 full turn.

edit: Brian's prior post reminded me that some Tayco air vent models incorporate a shutoff valve in the lower body, just above the threaded connection to the tank head. Although I do not beleive your air vent has that capability, you should check anyway. The body of the models with shutoff valves can be twisted approx 90° each direction to either shutoff or enable venting. They will typically indicate the On/Off direction with arrows shown on the upper lid.

 

[Chandra Combs]

Is it blowing any air? Maybe the line they screwed it onto is clogged.

Right now, the micronizer isn't pulling any air in, as the repair guy had to disable it while he orders a new one. I'll check to see if any air is coming out of the valve, but I wouldn't expect air to come out without the micronizer pulling air in. But if it is, then that may be an indication that air is coming in from another source, so thanks for this reply!

 

[Chandra Combs]

I suspect the air release valve will have a small hole in the cap for the air to be released through (that hole maybe what can be seen in the photo). If the black cap is screwed down tightly, that will prevent air from being released. Check the cap to ensure it is loosened off about 1 full turn.

edit: Brian's prior post reminded me that some Tayco air vent models incorporate a shutoff valve in the lower body, just above the threaded connection to the tank head. Although I do not beleive your air vent has that capability, you should check anyway. The body of the models with shutoff valves can be twisted approx 90° each direction to either shutoff or enable venting. They will typically indicate the On/Off direction with arrows shown on the upper lid.

Great ideas! I will check both and see if I can identify that shut off valve and also see if that cap is screwed on tightly. Great suggestions, and thanks for your reply!

 

[Valveman]

Right now, the micronizer isn't pulling any air in, as the repair guy had to disable it while he orders a new one. I'll check to see if any air is coming out of the valve, but I wouldn't expect air to come out without the micronizer pulling air in. But if it is, then that may be an indication that air is coming in from another source, so thanks for this reply!

"Had to disable it to keep it from sucking in air"??? That is what it is supposed to do. The air mixes with the water and only the excess air is vented. Just like any hydro tank system, if your air relief isn't relieving air, air will blow a glass out of your hand at the faucet. I have those same kind of air vents on some water heaters for molds. Even running antifreeze and rust inhibitor they either clog up and don't let out air or leak water until I tap on them. You can add an additional air vent on the line going to the house if you like. You need a continuous acting air release valve like they use on irrigation filters and things.

First one on a search. https://www.supplyhouse.com/Spiroth...MIuMSCi-3U6QIVzMDACh3ARQ2tEAQYASABEgJAd_D_BwE

 

[Chandra Combs]

"Had to disable it to keep it from sucking in air"??? That is what it is supposed to do. The air mixes with the water and only the excess air is vented. Just like any hydro tank system, if your air relief isn't relieving air, air will blow a glass out of your hand at the faucet. I have those same kind of air vents on some water heaters for molds. Even running antifreeze and rust inhibitor they either clog up and don't let out air or leak water until I tap on them. You can add an additional air vent on the line going to the house if you like. You need a continuous acting air release valve like they use on irrigation filters and things.

First one on a search. https://www.supplyhouse.com/Spiroth...MIuMSCi-3U6QIVzMDACh3ARQ2tEAQYASABEgJAd_D_BwE

He had to disable the micronizer because it was broken. He re-tooled it somehow and it's in place, but not currently drawing air. He said the water would still go through the filter, but wouldn't get the spurt of air until the new part was installed. Should be here in a day or two. The valve in the picture is brand new, and still in place. I hope that makes sense? And, please tell me something isn't going to blow up because the micronizer has been temporarily disabled...

 

[Chandra Combs]

"Had to disable it to keep it from sucking in air"??? That is what it is supposed to do. The air mixes with the water and only the excess air is vented. Just like any hydro tank system, if your air relief isn't relieving air, air will blow a glass out of your hand at the faucet. I have those same kind of air vents on some water heaters for molds. Even running antifreeze and rust inhibitor they either clog up and don't let out air or leak water until I tap on them. You can add an additional air vent on the line going to the house if you like. You need a continuous acting air release valve like they use on irrigation filters and things.

First one on a search. https://www.supplyhouse.com/Spiroth...MIuMSCi-3U6QIVzMDACh3ARQ2tEAQYASABEgJAd_D_BwE

OK, after going to take some photos, I realized that the micronizer is gone. What he "tooled" to fit appears to just be an empty fitting for water to flow through. The part looks new, whereas the micronizer was weathered from age. Here's 2 pics:

 

[Chandra Combs]

UPDATE: New Micronizer is installed. Thanks to the great suggestions on this thread, I asked him to check the new release valve to see if it was opened correctly. Of course it wasn't. It was closed tightly.

He got everything back to the correct pressure, adjusted the micronizer and the release valve. I have all fingers crossed that this finally fixes my problem, but I'm not holding my breath. Stay tuned, and thanks again for all of your help.