Well pump shutting off from shower usage?

[Tyann98]

We're having a slight issue with our well pump we can't figure out.

We had a Xylem Goulds 1/2 hp well pump (model 10GS05) installed new in 2020. Our well is 52 feet. Pressure switch is 30/50. I'm not sure exactly what the size of the pressure tank is - I think maybe about a 20 gal vertical due to the size of it.

Just recently, once or twice a week, the pump has been shutting off and so we lose water pressure, and it seems to be when only one particular shower in the house is being used.

At first, we assumed it was the pressure switch acting up. The contacts did look a bit crusty. We flipped that out with a new switch, but a week later, the same problem happened again. While the shower was being used, I watched the gauge, and it appears that the pump is shutting off before 50 psi can be reached, and remains off, and eventually the pressure tank empties from the shower. The pressure switch remains on - an voltage detector shows that power is still being provided from the switch, through the control box and out to the pump. If we wait a bit, flip the breaker a couple of times, it comes back on and we don't have a problem again for awhile. We have no issues with losing any pressure when there isn't any water being used.

It appears that the pump's thermal shutoff is being tripped? But I'm not sure why. This has happened about 5 times now, and only when this one particular shower in the house is being used for 5+ minutes. The shower must have high water draw and it seems to be overloading our pump, but I'm not sure why this hasn't been a problem until now. Is there something wrong with the pump or the control box? Or maybe an issue with the pressure tank that I don't understand? The pressure gauge seems to match the pressure when measured at the tank. Everything looks like its working as it should to me. The pump is under warranty for another 4 months, so I'm not sure if I sure pursue looking into replacement or not. I'll definitely look into installing a lower flow shower head, but if there's a bigger problem, I wanted some advice where to start.

Thank you!

 

[Reach4]

To measure voltage, use a meter with two test leads. "voltage detector " devices are not useful for well troubleshooting.

To measure current, a clamp-around ammeter is useful. You can get a multimeter with clamp-around plus probes for voltage/resistance.

You have a control box. Pump turns on, and then off, probably due to the pressure switch. Then the pump does not restart. Could be the start capacitor in the control box. Could be something else.

So during that event, before the water comes back, try measuring the voltage between terminals 2 and 3 of the pressure switch. A lot of 1/2 hp pumps are 2-wire (no control box).

If you have time, measure the current thru one of the pressure switch hot wire.

 

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[Valveman]

Again, this is the typical failure mode of a submersible pump. They are designed to stand the abuse of cycling on and off to at least last past the warranty date. But they don't all make it. It is not that the shower is putting out too much water, but not enough water. You have a 10 GPM pump with a tank that only holds 5 gallons of water. So, while the shower or anything is being uses, the pump will cycle on and off every minute or so. The first sign of cycling is burned points on the pressure switch. After that the bladder in the tank will go bad and/or the pump will quit as cycling on and off is what destroys everything in a pump system.

Pumps are made to run continuously 24/7/365. It is the cycling on and off that destroys them. With a 10 GPM pump you either need to always use 10 GPM or nothing, or install a huge pressure tank to reduce the cycling, or add a Cycle Stop Valve. With a Cycle Stop Valve you can use as little water as you want and the pump will not cycle on and off. The CSV also makes the shower pressure much stronger and constant while making the pump, tank, switch, and everything else last much longer.

 

[Tyann98]

To measure voltage, use a meter with two test leads. "voltage detector " devices are not useful for well troubleshooting.

To measure current, a clamp-around ammeter is useful. You can get a multimeter with clamp-around plus probes for voltage/resistance.

You have a control box. Pump turns on, and then off, probably due to the pressure switch. Then the pump does not restart. Could be the start capacitor in the control box. Could be something else.

So during that event, before the water comes back, try measuring the voltage between terminals 2 and 3 of the pressure switch. A lot of 1/2 hp pumps are 2-wire (no control box).

If you have time, measure the current thru one of the pressure switch hot wire.

Sorry, I am rather a novice with a multimeter, so I was just using the voltage detector as a quick way to see if the pressure switch was still sending power to the pump.

Our pump is a three wire with a QD control box residing in the house.

Voltage measuring between the terminals of the pressure switch is 240. From both the incoming power (1 and 4) and when the pressure switch is on (2 and 3).

The pump is shutting off before the pressure switch turns off. It takes anywhere from 3-10 minutes for the pump to return to normal operation after an event and it works fine until the next time there is a high water draw (which seems to only be the use of this one particular shower in my house).

We have a multimeter, but we did just stumbled across a clamp ammeter in the store so we purchased it.
When the pump runs, the amps measure:
Black wire: 12
yellow wire: 15.6
red: 0.2
When the pump goes into this problem "shut down" mode the amps read:
black wire: 2.4
yellow wire: 0.06
red wire: 0.2

If I'm looking at the right place in the users manual - I think the pump is supposed to be running more at about 5-6 amps.

So does that high of the amps mean the pump is starting to fail, or a potential issue with wiring?
I tried to measure resistance as dictated by the manual, but I couldn't get a good reading. Not sure I just didn't know what I was doing, or I couldn't find a good ground, or if that's also a symptom.

Thank you very much for your help. If it was as simple as calling a service technician, I would have done that already. Except that our installer retired and moved out of state, and I have yet to find a replacement to return a phone call. So few technicians around here it seems, or they are just hard to find.

 

[Reach4]

1/2 HP? I wonder if this is a 115 volt pump rather than a 230 volt pump. That could overload things.

I am wondering if the relay in the control box is not taking the start capacitor out of the circuit once the pump starts ( should be maybe 2 seconds or less).

If this is a 230 volt pump, could a bad relay in the control box explain the symptoms? I don't know.

Also, what is the part number on the control box? I would try to look up what that was designed for.

 

[Valveman]

It goes into "shut down" mode because the amps are too high. 5, 7, or 9 amps would be correct for 1/2, 3/4, and 1HP pumps. Been giving the bad news to people for a half century about pumps. Sounds like you need a new one. Sorry for your problem of not having a contractor that will even call you back. Most likely he/she won't know anymore about it than you do. They will just stick in a new pump and charge you plenty for it. This is why many people are having to DIY these days. It is out of necessity. Even when I call a repairman I usually end up having to fix or finish fixing it myself anyway.

As a nation we are in trouble if we don't start teaching people technical skills instead of paying them to not work. A college degree won't get your water back working, your AC/Heat in service, or replace your plumbing and electrical when needed. I think anyone who gets their student loan dismissed should have to learn a technical skill and show proof of employment, which with technical training won't be hard. Blue collar workers need the respect they deserve for being the backbone of every industry.

Having said that, I should also say there are some EXCELENT contractors out there. They are just few and far between. If you find a good one they are worth their weight in gold no matter what they charge. But that is because if they are a good one you also won't have to worry about being overcharged.

 

[Tyann98]

1/2 HP? I wonder if this is a 115 volt pump rather than a 230 volt pump. That could overload things.

I am wondering if the relay in the control box is not taking the start capacitor out of the circuit once the pump starts ( should be maybe 2 seconds or less).

If this is a 230 volt pump, could a bad relay in the control box explain the symptoms? I don't know.

Also, what is the part number on the control box? I would try to look up what that was designed for.

It definitely should be a 230 volt pump as I have the labels for it.

I also included a picture of the control box

 

[Valveman]

Normal amps are 5-6. LRA or Locked Rotor amps are 21 and yours is drawing 15. Gonna need a new pump no matter that you don't want to hear it. When you take the bottom end cap off the motor a bunch of black crud will come out as cycling on and off has destroyed the motor.

 

[Reach4]

I notice you have a Centripro pump motor and a Franklin control box. I don't see why that would be a problem, but ii just surprised me.

I don't know what the warranty situation is.

I also know that it can get cold in SD. That could affect the ability of the well service folks to work. I think that current you are seeing is more than could be explained with a control box failure. I think you have enough info now to try to schedule service. Having water is high priority.

One more thing... what diameter is your well? If it is big enough, it is best to put a flow inducer on the pump. Searching that term in the search box above will provide past discussions. A 1/2 hp pump usually would run cool enough without it, but it will not hurt. If the well is top-feeding it is more important, but even if bottom fed, it is a plus. Cheap.

 

[Tyann98]

I notice you have a Centripro pump motor and a Franklin control box. I don't see why that would be a problem, but ii just surprised me.

I don't know what the warranty situation is.

I also know that it can get cold in SD. That could affect the ability of the well service folks to work. I think that current you are seeing is more than could be explained with a control box failure. I think you have enough info now to try to schedule service. Having water is high priority.

One more thing... what diameter is your well? If it is big enough, it is best to put a flow inducer on the pump. Searching that term in the search box above will provide past discussions. A 1/2 hp pump usually would run cool enough without it, but it will not hurt. If the well is top-feeding it is more important, but even if bottom fed, it is a plus. Cheap.

Just thought I'd update you:

I found a wonderful well service couple that was in the area to look at my issue, and they agreed - the amps the pump was pulling was pretty high and pump was probably going to fail anytime.
They wanted to get the job out of the way and got the new pump installed today! (***** SERVICE!) And they were even cheaper than our last pump install. I only had to move about 3 foot deep snow to let their truck in.
They were unsure if the warranty was going to pan out, but they might try.
Regardless, hopefully I am good for another 3+ years.
And yes, because of the size of our well (30 inches in diameter), he put on a flow inducer and thought we probably should have had one before. So hopefully that helps!

Thank you so much for your suggestions and guidance - I think they were impressed with my knowledge, and we got a quick and easy diagnosis. And I can put this problem behind me for now.