Well not pumping - PUMPTEC controller has power

[Blue Oaks]

Guys,

I've noticed my water level gauge going lower over the past few days, which is unusual for this time of year. If you recall I have a couple of tanks way up on the hill behind my house. The pump house is below my house and has a PUMPTEC controller.

I went down and observed the controller for a while and didn't see the light move from LOAD to POWER. Typical operation is the LOAD (yellow) light is solid / illuminated when there isn't enough water in the storage tanks, and the tank float switch is closed (asking for water). I turned the power off to the system for a few seconds and turned it back on. The POWER (green) light flashed once per second for about 5 seconds, then it reverted back to solid LOAD.

Typically the LOAD light stays lit for five to ten minutes, then the POWER light flashes for 3-5 minutes as the well pumps. Is my pump fried? I think it's unlikely the well has run dry following historic rains and no one in the neighborhood is pumping much water from their wells.

I've got the local well guy coming out tomorrow to take a look, but thought I'd ping y'all for opinions in the meantime.

Andy

 

[Valveman]

I would put an amp meter on one of the hot wires and disconnect the Pumptec to see what is happening. The pumptec doesn't care how much water is in the storage tank, it shuts the pump down when there is no water in the well.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Blue Oaks]

I don't think that's quite right. It also shuts down the pump when the tanks are full. When the tanks are full the yellow/LOAD light is not illuminated. No lights are illuminated when the tanks are full.

 

[Valveman]

Lol. The float switch is the only thing that knows if the water level in the storage tank is high or low and starts the well pump when it is low. Now if you have a pumptec on the booster pumping out of the storage tank that is a different story.

 

[Blue Oaks]

Yeah, you're right. I thought there was a float or something at the bottom of the well.

Well guy came out just now and we went through it. While pumping it's only drawing half the amps it should, and won't pump the additional 100 vertical feet to the tanks unless the controller is bypassed. It's also pumping half the GPM it should when the controller is bypassed. The controller is just turning it off right away since it doesn't have the correct load. He thinks the pump itself is bad, since the motor passed his electrical checks.

The writing on the inside cover says the pump was put in place in 2013 and is 100 feet down out of 116 feet. I thought it was deeper, but sounds like that should be right. He said it's PVC and he's probably going to have to pull the pump to see what's really going on. Lots of rust in the water as the casing is steel and probably 55 years old now. He's going to discuss with the owner of the well company and come up with a plan. For now, I have water in my tanks.

 

[Valveman]

There could also be a restriction in the line. A restriction will cause the pump to draw low amps and produce half flow. Make sure all your valves are open and the handle is not just spinning and doing nothing. Also make sure there are no clogged filters or anything in the line before pulling the pump. You should be able to recalibrate the pumptec to work at the lower amps and still get half flow, which is probably still enough.

 

[Blue Oaks]

Thanks. I'll ask the well guy about that. When we measured the flow, we took apart a union just after it comes out of the ground. The guy who came out said there might also be some collapse of the casing since it's so old and rusted steel.

 

[Valveman]

Could be a clog anywhere before that, even just the screen on the pump or the first impeller.

 

[Blue Oaks]

They're planning on coming out on Monday to put in a new pump. He said a pump like that in my scenario lasts approx 10-12 years so I'm due anyway. I'll update you guys after.

 

[Reach4]

I would take pictures of the labels on the new and old pumps. There is a label on the motor, and other on the top part.

I expect a submersible pump to last much longer than 12 years, but conditions vary.

 

[Blue Oaks]

Good advice. My pump kicks on and off about 6 times an hour all summer long.

 

[Reach4]

Good advice. My pump kicks on and off about 6 times an hour all summer long.

I think you are saying that this is because the well runs dry after a couple minutes of pumping, and that Pumptec timer is allowing some time for refilling before trying again. I presume the float switch in the tanks are requesting water pretty much continuously. So that would seem to make a lower pump life more understandable.

 

[Blue Oaks]

I think you are saying that this is because the well runs dry after a couple minutes of pumping, and that Pumptec timer is allowing some time for refilling before trying again. I presume the float switch in the tanks are requesting water pretty much continuously. So that would seem to make a lower pump life more understandable.

That's correct! Once it fills, it probably goes a few days before the float switch toggles though. Maybe 6 times an hour, half the summer!

 

[Valveman]

Restricting the flow from the pump to make the pump stay on longer would be best. If the pump comes on 6 times an hour and pumps 20 gallons every time it comes on, it would be better for the pump to be restricted to 2 GPM and run 24 hours a day. I have a pump that has been restricted to 3 GPM that hasn't shut off since 1999. I expect it to last until 2040 or so, as running 24/7/365 is the best thing you can do for a submersible pump.

 

[Blue Oaks]

"Well" the crew is out replacing the pump, motor, and piping. Lots of sludge built up in the pipe. The guy was saying I should have them acid flush it on some sort of regular basis, every year and a half to two years. Also putting in new wire.

 

[Reach4]

That is quite the restriction in the drop pipe ID.

What do they do with an acid wash? I expect they drop acid pellets, let it sit for a while, and pump it out. Maybe recirculate. Maybe filter and recirculate? Where will they pump it to?

NuWell-100 would be the small DIY container. Or maybe a totally different chemical, because I think NuWell is usually used to treat calcium compound deposits along with some iron. They may uses a more iron-specific chemical. Maybe Nu-Well 310 in conjunction with something else.

https://johnsonscreens.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/How-to-keep-water-wells-healthy.pdf

When I sanitize my well, I recirculate thru a cartridge filter. I consider that optional. That cartridge collects orange material that looks like what you have, but you have a whole lot more.

I wonder if a good sanitizing would reduce the IRB (iron-reducing bacteria) population, and reduce the growth of sludge. I normally sanitize with bleach and vinegar (but not poured together). The cleaning acid could serve as the acid, which super-activates the chlorine bleach. There is also the concept of a "flooding volume, where the disinfecting solution is pushed into nearby areas outside of the well, to kill off that bacteria. IRB is said to be slow-growing.

 

[Blue Oaks]

The acid flush involves pouring a bunch (don't know how much) of acid into the well, routing the pump back into the well, and running it for 24 hours.

All set and ready for some insulation wrap. The water was fairly dark gray when we fired it up. My well guy said that is crushed granite from when it was dug. Definitely a different color than the rust I was seeing last week.

 

[Blue Oaks]

Several cycles later and water was fairly clear, so we buttoned it up.

 

[Reach4]

That topside check valve is usually not a good idea.
The pressure relief is a very good idea. Normally you do not put a valve between the pump and the pressure switch.

 

[Valveman]

Glad you got it working. I would have cycled it and let it run for a couple more days until it cleared up completely. You can still do that with it buttoned up using the hose valve past the gate valve. That way you can just run it when no one is home and close the hose valve when you need water in the house.

I also would not have put that check valve, galvanized nipple, and ball valve in the line at the well head. All three of those things are just problems waiting to happen and don't do anything to help the system. You will be lucky if the water hammer caused by that above ground check valve doesn't break the plastic union just prior to the check valve, as it will see the brunt of the hit each time the pump starts.

I also do not think that is granite dust. That is just what happens to iron or iron bacteria after acidizing. Looks like iron bacteria as it will grow inside the pipe like that. Iron and iron bacteria is hard to get rid of. It will just start growing and clogging up the pipe and things all over again. It grows in the pores in the plastic pipe, and chlorine or acid just gets the surface layer. It takes multiple and regular dosing to kill the bacteria.

You might look into the sulfur eliminator. It continually aerates the water down the well which works well in getting out the iron.