Santee vs. Combo

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Storm rider

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In a previous thread (https://terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?37280-Help-With-Adding-A-Vent) Terry said that “Whenever you go from vertical to horizontal, it needs to be a wye fitting. (combo or wye with 45)”

In checking the plumbing under my house I see that all the vertical drops make a 90 before entering the main drain line horizontally. For these horizontal connections they have used a mixture of santees (in the 1978 part) and combos (in the 1991 addition). Does it make any difference under UPC if a connection in the horizontal plane is made with a santee or a combo? What are the rules for the use of each type? Just curious.

Nevada UPC adopted at State level but IPC in use locally
 
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NHmaster3015

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Combo good....san tee bad

combo-on-vent-terrylove-01.jpg
 
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rusak

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706.3 Horizontal drainage lines connecting with
other horizontal drainage lines shall enter through 45
degree (0.79 rad) wye branches, combination wye
and one-eighth (1/8) bend branches, or other
approved fittings of equivalent sweep.

706.4 Vertical drainage lines connecting with horizontal
drainage lines shall enter through 45 degree
(0.79 rad) wye branches, combination wye and oneeighth
(1/8) bend branches,
or other approved fittings
of equivalent sweep. Branches or offsets of 60 degrees
(1.05 rad) shall be permitted to be used only when
installed in a true vertical position.
 

hj

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quote; Branches or offsets of 60 degrees (1.05 rad) shall be permitted to be used only when installed in a true vertical position

I am not sure what that means, because a 60 is most useful when it is NOT installed in a true vertical position. And sanitary tees can be installed into lines dropping at an angle, whether it is 45 degrees, 22 1/2 degrees, or 60 degrees. But they CANNOT be installed in horizontal lines, regardless of their orientation, or purpose.
 

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quote: But they CANNOT be installed in horizontal lines, regardless of their orientation, or purpose.

San tees are installed here regularly in Oregon horizontally for venting trap arms, and approved by most jurisdictions.
 

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So what I gather from this discussion is that some day when I have nothing better to do I should change these san tees to combos. And I should probably change that strap to a plastic hanger while I'm at it. On the other hand, it's been working fine for 30 years.
 

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NHmaster3015

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quote: But they CANNOT be installed in horizontal lines, regardless of their orientation, or purpose.

San tees are installed here regularly in Oregon horizontally for venting trap arms, and approved by most jurisdictions.


Thank you. most often mis understood bit of information by masters, journeymen and apprentices. A Sanatary tee can indeed be installed horizontally if the outlet is vertical and dry. Try it guys. You will be amazed at how much tighter you can get tub and shower traps to the floor.
 

hj

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quote; most often mis understood bit of information by masters, journeymen and apprentices. A Sanatary tee can indeed be installed horizontally if the outlet is vertical and dry. Try it guys. You will be amazed at how much tighter you can get tub and shower traps to the floor.

The sanitary tee can ONLY be installed in a horizontal line IF the inspector allows it, and none of them in this area do. And even if an individual inspector allowed it, I would NOT want to gamble on whether I got that one or one who would make me change it. WE KNOW the difference in dimensions between a san tee and a combo, but I am NOT usually concerned about getting the traps CLOSER to the floor.

The two times a sanitary tee in a horizontal line is "bad" is when an inspector sees it, or when it has to be snaked, (and even then it is not always "bad"), so if they have not given you problems, forget about them.
 

NHmaster3015

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If you are under the IPC and unless there are local amendments prohibiting it, there is nothing an inspector can do other than grumble about it. Logically, if the outlet is dry (vent only ) it has less chance of plugging than a combo would. Like I said, misunderstood because everyone goes right to the little chart in the drainage section of the code book on prohibited use of fittings. Try to find it under the chapter on venting. And I can see why the distance thing might not be a problem very often for you in Arizona where most homes are on a slab but out here 2nd floor baths are common and getting a 2" shower drain to not hang below the 2 x 10's can be a challange.
 

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Nevada UPC adopted at State level but IPC in use locally

If the inspector is using UPC, then no santees horizontal for vents.
We get turned down here for that.
 

tlarson

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Quote:

The sanitary tee can ONLY be installed in a horizontal line IF the inspector allows it, and none of them in this area do. And even if an individual inspector allowed it, I would NOT want to gamble on whether I got that one or one who would make me change it. WE KNOW the difference in dimensions between a san tee and a combo, but I am NOT usually concerned about getting the traps CLOSER to the floor.

The two times a sanitary tee in a horizontal line is "bad" is when an inspector sees it, or when it has to be snaked, (and even then it is not always "bad"), so if they have not given you problems, forget about them"


San tees can be installed here for vents not "IF" an inspector allows it, but because the local CODE allows it. There is no discretion on the part of the inspector. I've done it several dozen times in threee different counties with NO issues or objections. It is not "BAD" because an inspector sees it, and there is no "GAMBLE" involved. But I agree with HJ, it might be a real pain to snake.
 

NHmaster3015

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The code is the code. Inspectors are not allowed to make stuff up and though they can interpret the code they still need to follow the guidelines of the code and commentary. That said, arguing over a two dollar fitting may not be the best course of action either. As plumbers we all have a tendency to look at the code with an eye out for things we can not do as opposed to things that we can do. Case in point would be the most neglected and overlooked section on DWV as it pertains to stack venting. Something damn few plumbers even consider, but done properly will save time and materials. I have not worked under the UPC for many years and the last time I did there were all sorts of hold overs from the old BOCA code. Things like an undiminished stack through the roof and no wet venting at all.
 

hj

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"Full size vent through the roof" and "no wet venting" have not been UPC issues for the 40 years I have been here, so you would have to have left a UPC area a LONG time ago.
 
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