Remove Air from system after Air Injection Iron Filter

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Scott Walter

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I have a question. Is there a way to remove the extra air that is in the water after the air injection iron filter?

The iron is much better in our house now, but the faucets spurt air now every time we use them. I was thinking of adding a retention tank with an air elimination valve at the top to see if that would help. I have to believe there is a way to do this.

Any guidance you can offer would be appreciated.
 

Reach4

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Not a retention tank, but a regular pressure tank with an air volume control mounted about 1/2 way up on the side of the tank.
I suspect "regular" and even "conventional" may no longer be the best words to describe the classic (no diaphram or bladder) air and water tanks, since I think they are in the minority now. Hydropnuematic tank is accurate, but most people won't know that word. It is a good word for search engines, however.
 

Scott Walter

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Thanks for the replies. I have a couple of questions.

First, my system is well pump into a bladder tank. From there I go through the Air Injection Iron filter (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B004FVZHLC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ) then my water softener. From the softener, it is distributed to the house.

Would I put the tank in between the iron filter and the softener?

Second, why would I use and air control valve half way up the tank if I already have the bladder tank? Could I just put a valve like this at the top of the tank? Clean Water Air Release: http://www.valmatic.com/airrelease.html
 

Valveman

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You can't put an air relief valve on top of a bladder tank. And if the air injection is after the bladder tank, the air relief will need to be after that. But the air must stay mixed with the water long enough to do its job. What do you have after the air injector?

Also moving this to the softener forum where people more experienced with water treatment can help.
 

Scott Walter

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You can't put an air relief valve on top of a bladder tank. And if the air injection is after the bladder tank, the air relief will need to be after that. But the air must stay mixed with the water long enough to do its job. What do you have after the air injector?

Also moving this to the softener forum where people more experienced with water treatment can help.

I am sorry. I was unclear. If I add as standard bladderless tank to the system after the air injection but before the softerner. The bladder tank would still be after the well pump. In the bladderless tank, would I need an air pocket above the water or could I put the air elimination valve at the top?
 

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I think the air volume control would need to go on the side of the tank, not the top. On top of the tank it would eliminate all air, and you need the air to mix with the water.
 

Scott Walter

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Here is a picture of my current setup. Pre-Charged tank on the right, followed by the air injection system in black, and then the Culligan water softener. So the suggestion is to add a standard or Hydropnuematic tank to the system. Should that be installed between the air injection system and the water softener, or after the water softener?

Secondly, I am still unclear why the new tank would need to have air in it at all. I understand that the air control valve would vent the excess air in the tank, I am just curious why I would need any air in this tank as long as I keep the original precharged tank on the right.
 

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Reach4

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Secondly, I am still unclear why the new tank would need to have air in it at all. I understand that the air control valve would vent the excess air in the tank, I am just curious why I would need any air in this tank as long as I keep the original precharged tank on the right.
If you find a suitable air release device without a tank, that should be OK. Those are pretty common in the hydronic heating world. I would mount that at the top of a tee, so that the passing air could rise and get exhausted.

The advantage of a tank is that the air would separate out even better, and there would be some potentially settling. Disadvantage would be space and cost.
 

ditttohead

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https://www.mcmaster.com/#air-bleeders/=1bscv44
4928k4p1-c03a-digitals.png


These are fairly effective... lots of ways to do it cheap and simple. A tank is best but costly. You could create a low velocity loop with this on top. This is nothing more than a 3" pipe going up a foot, then back down a foot after the units. The low water velocity should help to allow the air to raise to the top... goofy but effective.
 

Scott Walter

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https://www.mcmaster.com/#air-bleeders/=1bscv44
4928k4p1-c03a-digitals.png


These are fairly effective... lots of ways to do it cheap and simple. A tank is best but costly. You could create a low velocity loop with this on top. This is nothing more than a 3" pipe going up a foot, then back down a foot after the units. The low water velocity should help to allow the air to raise to the top... goofy but effective.
That makes sense. I am not opposed to installing a tank, but I might try your idea first.

I did find this tank for $200, so not crazy expensive. I assume a valve like that on top of the tank would work too.
https://www.farmandfleet.com/products/020957-flotec-epoxy-lined-pressure-tank.html
 

ditttohead

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We have guys that sell a better tank for a reasonable price. Send me PM< I can make recommendation of where to buy a great design but... a 3 inch loop... really cheap and simple. It will probably help.
 

Reach4

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This is nothing more than a 3" pipe going up a foot, then back down a foot after the units.
Scott, if you do that, make sure you are getting pipe made for pressure. Most 3 inch pipe that you will see in the stores is for drain application, and not for pressurized water.

If you see DWV in the description, it is not for pressure.
 

Scott Walter

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Scott, if you do that, make sure you are getting pipe made for pressure. Most 3 inch pipe that you will see in the stores is for drain application, and not for pressurized water.

If you see DWV in the description, it is not for pressure.

Thanks for the advice. I understand the difference and will ensure I have the right parts. Seems like an interesting solution that looks like it is worth a try. If it doesn't work out, I will add a tank. I will keep you posted on my progress.
 

ditttohead

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Surprisingly it usually works... please let us know if your successful. This is a real old trick... we use this design in a lot of heating and cooling systems... we also do several of these to reduce corrosion potential in these systems.
 

Scott Walter

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I had to order some of the parts. My local hardware store didn't carry all the fittings I needed, so it will be a week or two before I get it built and installed. I will definitely let you know how it works. Was talking to a couple of friends that have similar issues, so if it solves the issue, several more will be installed in other homes too.
 

Scott Walter

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I promised I would post an update. I finally installed the loop tonight. I will know in a couple of days how effective it is.
 

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LLigetfa

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I cannot help but think there is a fault in the system as there should not be air moving forward into and beyond the softener. Both the iron filter and softener most likely are the downflow type so the air would have to completely fill the the media tanks displacing all the water.

I did not see any mention of brand or method of the air injection. There are a few different methods. A common method is with a micronizer inline before a HP tank that then regulates the amount of air with an AVC. Another method is a micronizer style injector built right into the iron filter that injects air into the media tank only during the backwash cycle and then consumes that air during normal service.

Sometimes the water can hold the entrained air past the iron filter and softener, only to release it further downstream. This tends to happen more in the hot water tank where the action of heating the water drives out the air causing air to spurt out mostly after there was a period of no water use, such as first thing in the morning. Entrained air can also come out of the water when there is a drop in pressure.

Widely fluctuating pressure can also move air trapped in the media tanks forward as the air expands as pressure drops, displacing all the water. This pressure drop could be from high GPM draws that exceed the service flow rate of the iron filter. A clogged up iron filter can also cause a reduction in flow rate causing a pressure drop beyond it.
 
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