Plumbing for Water Softener

[In Seok Hwang]

Hi, there.

I have several questions on plumbing for water softener.
Recently, I ordered based on feed backs from this forum members.
.Fleck 5600 SXT with 10% cross-link resin with 64,000 grain capacity.

To install it, I have several concerns.

1. Is there anybody who have installed water softener in townhouse garage with 1" pre-filter ?
My concern is to how to hold a heavy pre-filter with 4/5" x 10" cartridge.
- An 25/32" plywood with 4 ft x 3 ft covering one side of whole drywall would work ?
- How to find a fixing point on the drywall for this kind of attachment ?

2. Any recommendation on good tube with 1/2" ID with 5/8" OD for drain lining ?
- Can I use 3/8" ID tubing with 1/2" to 3/8" adapter ? (It comes with 1/2" ID adapter)
It would be less than 5 feet from the softener drain connector to actual drain pipe.
(If it would work, I can easily get a good 3/8" tube for refrigerator.)

Thanks in advance.

 

[ditttohead]

Use 1/2" PVC for the drain.

Get a stud finder. Personally I use the Walabot, it has turned out to be better than I expected.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[In Seok Hwang]

Use 1/2" PVC for the drain.

Get a stud finder. Personally I use the Walabot, it has turned out to be better than I expected.

Thanks for the reply.

But, I have to make a hole through drywall to the bath sink facing garage wall in my case.
So, I want to tubing with smaller outer diameter.

Can I go with 1/2" ID PEX ?

Regards

 

[ditttohead]

For drain, you should be fine.

 

[In Seok Hwang]

For drain, you should be fine.

Thanks for advice on PEX.
One more question, can I go with 3/8" PEX for 5 feet drain lining of 64,000 2 cubic feet resin system ?

Regards

 

[Reach4]

1/2 inch pex will not fit on the barb in your picture, so you would need a different adapter.

You will backwash at 3.5 gpm. While I expect 3/8 pex would carry the drainage 5 ft without too much backpressure, why do that? 1/2 inch pex is cheaper, and the adapter (I think 1/2 MIP to pex) probably is too. I guess you have the 3/8 pex already. Plus, your softener service manual says 1/2, so avoid somebody questioning your install later by using 1/2.

I use something like these with a right-angle adapter, but I am not going through a wall:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbil...-10-ft-Clear-Vinyl-Tubing-T10006010/304185142
Ace ProLine 1/2 in. Dia. x 5/8 in. Dia. PVC Vinyl Tubing - Ace Hardware

 

[In Seok Hwang]

1/2 inch pex will not fit on the barb in your picture, so you would need a different adapter.

You will backwash at 3.5 gpm. While I expect 3/8 pex would carry the drainage 5 ft without too much backpressure, why do that? 1/2 inch pex is cheaper, and the adapter (I think 1/2 MIP to pex) probably is too. I guess you have the 3/8 pex already. Plus, your softener service manual says 1/2, so avoid somebody questioning your install later by using 1/2.

I use something like these with a right-angle adapter, but I am not going through a wall:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbil...-10-ft-Clear-Vinyl-Tubing-T10006010/304185142
Ace ProLine 1/2 in. Dia. x 5/8 in. Dia. PVC Vinyl Tubing - Ace Hardware

1. Yes. 1/2" is recommended in manual.
But, I want to check the possibility of 3/8" for smaller hole in drywall if possible.

2. I had a concern on rigidity of Everbilt Vinyl Tubing 1/2" ID for 64,000 grain system with 5 ft drain lining.
At the store, I saw this item and it was very soft and flexible.
What is your resin size and tank size ? If your system is similar size with mine, I'll choose this tube too.

Thanks

 

[Reach4]

1. Yes. 1/2" is recommended in manual.
But, I want to check the possibility of 3/8" for smaller hole in drywall if possible.

2. I had a concern on rigidity of Everbilt Vinyl Tubing 1/2" ID for 64,000 grain system with 5 ft drain lining.
At the store, I saw this item and it was very soft and flexible.
What is your resin size and tank size ? If your system is similar size with mine, I'll choose this tube too.

Thanks

I would not want to go through a wall or turn corners with that clear tubing. Being out of sight, it could pinch. They do sell reinforced tubing. Your idea of pex, even 3/8, seems fine for function.

If your incoming water pressure is 40 psi or more, you should have plenty of margin with 3/8 pex and an elbow. My tank is 10 inch, to your 12, so I only have 2.4 gpm backwash.

 

[Bannerman]

You need to make a hole regardless. Use the diameter drain tubing specified and eliminate any source of doubt.

You will need an air gap where the softener's pressurized drain line is to connect to the home's drainage system.

 

[In Seok Hwang]

You need to make a hole regardless. Use the diameter drain tubing specified and eliminate any source of doubt.

You will need an air gap where the softener's pressurized drain line is to connect to the home's drainage system.

Hole is unavoidable due to no drain at all in my garage.

Anyway, will go 1/2" ID drain per your suggestion.
.Need to purchase 1/2" MIP to 1/2" Barb adapter and other parts for PEX drain lining for rigidity.

Again, thanks for the reminding me of air-gap.
.Have a mind of using Plumb Pak by Keeny Airgap directly inserting 1/2" PEX with glue
(Looks like 1/2" PEX have 0.625'' OD and this air-gap inlet has the 5/8" diameter)

Any good idea for fitting parts running though a drywall if I go with PEX ?
I guess a few 90 degree elbow like parts are required.
(I am a beginner in plumbing world and PEX is also a new item to study)

 

[Reach4]

Any good idea for fitting parts running though a drywall if I go with PEX ?

You can use an escutcheon, such as you might put on the supply pipe to the toilet stop valve, to dress up the hole. That could even cover a bigger hole, as you might need if you stuff in an elbow.

There are split escutcheons, which you can add later, or feed the pex thru the not-split side.

 

[In Seok Hwang]

You can use an escutcheon, such as you might put on the supply pipe to the toilet stop valve, to dress up the hole. That could even cover a bigger hole, as you might need if you stuff in an elbow.

There are split escutcheons, which you can add later, or feed the pex thru the not-split side.

Thanks for the guide and would like to check one more point.

Would air-gap over bathroom sink arm work fine from GPM point of view ? I guess ~ 3 to 5 GPM of drain water flow. Drain tube and air-gap would be fixed on the MDF wall.
- My system is 64K grain capacity with ~ 55 inch tall with 12 inch diameter resin tank and 0.5 GPM brine valve.
- There are not much space margin for standing pipe over arm since it is under the sink
(As shared, no drain at the garage and I plan to attach 1.5" arm to the bathroom sink as show in the picture.)

Regards

 

[Kevin2u]

I just installed my 48k unit using the cheap vinyl 1/2" tubing. It does have kinks in it from the way it is packaged, I do not recommend it. One week later and it still has pinched areas. Reach4 has been a great help!!

 

[Bannerman]

An alternate to that air gap device would be to utilize one normally for a Dishwasher. Those are available in various finishes as it would be visible beside the sink either mounted through the counter or the sink apron if possible. One example shown here: https://images.app.goo.gl/YYGNKtiqnVAsSuk97

Although not common, I have seen a 1.25" lavatory tailpiece with a side connection for draining a dishwasher, likely only available through specialty plumbing suppliers.

 

[ditttohead]

For short, cheap, reliable, aesthetically pleasing drain lines, just use 1/2" or 3/4" PVC. A few glue elbows and you are good to go.

 

[In Seok Hwang]

For short, cheap, reliable, aesthetically pleasing drain lines, just use 1/2" or 3/4" PVC. A few glue elbows and you are good to go.

Hi, thanks.

I drew a picture of current plan (Case 1) and your comment (Case 2).
.Case 1 has a limited length for preventing spill out flood and potential splash over gap hole.

Did I miss any points of your suggestion ?

Regards

 

[Water Pro]

Thanks for the guide and would like to check one more point.

Would air-gap over bathroom sink arm work fine from GPM point of view ? I guess ~ 3 to 5 GPM of drain water flow. Drain tube and air-gap would be fixed on the MDF wall.
- My system is 64K grain capacity with ~ 55 inch tall with 12 inch diameter resin tank and 0.5 GPM brine valve.
- There are not much space margin for standing pipe over arm since it is under the sink
(As shared, no drain at the garage and I plan to attach 1.5" arm to the bathroom sink as show in the picture.)

Regards

that is going to be incredibly loud imo. if you can some he ow route to an actual pvc line in the basement would be preferable. using this https://www.discountwatersofteners.com/parts/bypass-assemblies/drain-line-poly-tubing-roll-1-2-id/

 

[In Seok Hwang]

Hi all,

Just wanted to share the results since I've got lots of idea and comment from replying members with warm support.

1. Refer the attached figure.
- Fleck 5600 SXT 64,000 capacity / 2 cu ft 10% cross-link resin with 12 inch diameter and ~ 55 inch tall
. Maximum efficiency setting C = 42K with BF = 8 under 0.5 GPM BFLC
. 50 PSI pressure and seems pressure drop of 4~5 psi at outlet when softening/serving
. Add separate bypass valve, pressure gauge and un-softened water faucet
(Skip sediment filter now due to city-water and to be added later if required)
- 1 inch copper piping for inlet/outlet, 1/2" PVC piping for drain
- No drain at the garage and needs to drill a hole through garage wall to bathroom sink
.Wall scanning device is required to avoid existing plumbing pipes in horizontal axis
.Proper vertical location of holes to secure drain height from sink sewer line as well
as distance from inlet/outlet softener piping
(It might be more easy if you drill a drain hole first and then do inlet/outlet plumbing)

2. Just run 1st regeneration by manual mode with skip of BD step but needs further clean-up as follows, though.
- Make-up for garage wall with white paint/spray
- Proper tuning of PVC pipe for air-gap separation in the bathroom under sink
- Add salt to brine tank (which is filled ~ 4 gallon of water now from BF stage in 1st manual regeneration)
- Other house main shut-off valve issue (Out of this thread discussion)

 

[Bannerman]

Sorry to say, your drain connection does not qualify as an air gap.

If there is ever a backup from the lavatory drain, the end of the softener's drain line would be in contact with contaminated fluid with a potential that some fluid maybe drawn back into the softener, as unlikely as that maybe.

An airgap's purpose is to ensure a physical distance between a potable device (softener) and the building drain system so there will be 0 potential for cross contamination.

 

[In Seok Hwang]

Sorry to say, your drain connection does not qualify as an air gap.

If there is ever a backup from the lavatory drain, the end of the softener's drain line would be in contact with contaminated fluid with a potential that some fluid maybe drawn back into the softener, as unlikely as that maybe.

An airgap's purpose is to ensure a physical distance between a potable device (softener) and the building drain system so there will be 0 potential for cross contamination.

Thanks for the comment.

"Proper tuning of PVC pipe for air-gap separation in the bathroom under sink" means cut the drain pipe
after elbow to meet air-gap separation. It is a further work and I just checked the splash/Backwash drain flow
at the 1st manual regeneration.