Need help with Water System

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JustaDIYer

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I'm on a private well with a iron removal and water softener treatment. We still get red tint on shower walls/toilet bowls. Had the water tested and here are the results:
Raw Water:
TDS: 713
Hardness: 40
Iron: 2.5
Nitrates: Yes (no level given but a test back in 2015, level was 0.2)

Treated Water:
TDS: 615
Hardness: 4
Iron: 0.3
Nitrates: Yes

pH is about 7.4

The system installed is as follows:

Iron Filter:
Fleck 5810 SXT (new 5/2017)
1.5 cu ft KL (new 5/2017)
6gpm dlfc
regenerates every 2 days

Softener:
Fleck 5800 SXT (new 8/2022)
2.5 cu ft Purolite SST60 (new 3/2015)
13x54 tank
0.25gpm Brine valve; #1 injector
regenerates based on gallons used


I just did a well sanitization last week. Test results are after the sanitization
We did have an iron bacteria issue a couple years ago, had to replace the well pump (was about 95% plugged).


Questions:
- Is it time to replace the resin in both units? Or can a deep clean of both be done?
- Should the TDS be much less after filtration?

Thanks.
 

Reach4

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I would tend to think the KL could use replacing. It might all be cemented up. 6 GPM is not enough backwash IMO. I would like to see 8 or 9 GPM.

It is also possible the KL could be improved with bleach, but I have not seen anybody post having done that successfully.

index.php


For the softener I would try treating the resin with Iron Out powder.
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/help-i-need-a-new-water-system.110383/#post-780644 lists a procedure, but I would increase the dose to maybe 1 cup.
 

JustaDIYer

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My iron filter does not have the injector to inject chlorine. If need be and can be done, I'll gladly do it. Just need to know what to order and how to set it up. Can the backwash be increased with a new part? Pretty sure my pump can do 8gpm.

Is KL still a good media for the iron filter? Anything else out there better that can be used?

I've used the Iron out before, but it needs it needs it again and I'll up the amount.
 

JustaDIYer

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I've done similar to that procedure; I cannot monitor the drain for TDS or color due to the drain being hard lined into my sump crock with a sealed lid for my radon system.

The way I've done it in the past is once all the brine is drawn in, I bypass the softener and let it sit. Do you just let the softener run the rest of the cycle and after so many hours, put the softener back in service and manually start another regen to clear it all out?
 

Reach4

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I've done similar to that procedure; I cannot monitor the drain for TDS or color due to the drain being hard lined into my sump crock with a sealed lid for my radon system.

The way I've done it in the past is once all the brine is drawn in, I bypass the softener and let it sit. Do you just let the softener run the rest of the cycle and after so many hours, put the softener back in service and manually start another regen to clear it all out?
Sorta... You would like to put the softener into bypass with the maximum concentration of iron out next to the resin. After some thought, I think the softener would be put into bypass a few minutes after the brine had all been drawn out. So if your brine gets drawn out after 13.2 minutes into BD, maybe close the bypass 15 minutes into BD.

I've done similar to that procedure; I cannot monitor the drain for TDS or color due to the drain being hard lined into my sump crock with a sealed lid for my radon system.
Is your drain line 3/4 inch PEX, or what?

Also, can you shine a bright flashlight, in the dark, thru your tank and see the shadow of the media? Probably not, but if you could, that could let you try something interesting.

Is KL still a good media for the iron filter? Anything else out there better that can be used?
I don't know of something better to substitute.

Your valve is going to be set up for filtering, and will not have the parts needed to draw bleach or H2O2 during regen. Any injection would have to be done with an injection pump before.

Increasing the DLFC blfc should increase backwash. See 17943 ...........................Washer, Flow, 8.0 GPM on page 18 of the service manual. If your old media is stuck, that would still be good to have for the replacement media. I am not sure 9 gpm wouldn't be an even better choice.
 
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JustaDIYer

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Is your drain line 3/4 inch PEX, or what?
3/4" pvc

Also, can you shine a bright flashlight, in the dark, thru your tank and see the shadow of the media? Probably not, but if you could, that could let you try something interesting.
no, nothing.

Your valve is going to be set up for filtering, and will not have the parts needed to draw bleach or H2O2 during regen. Any injection would have to be done with an injection pump before.
Can I reconfigure the valve to have it inject chlorine? If I could, would all the chlorine be washed away during regen? I don't want to add another filter to get the chlorine out afterwards.

Increasing the BLFC should increase backwash. See 17943 ...........................Washer, Flow, 8.0 GPM on page 18 of the service manual. If your old media is stuck, that would still be good to have for the replacement media. I am not sure 9 gpm wouldn't be an even better choice.
So you're saying to replace the BLFC with an 8gpm (or 9) when i replace the media?
 

Reach4

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Can I reconfigure the valve to have it inject chlorine? If I could, would all the chlorine be washed away during regen? I don't want to add another filter to get the chlorine out afterwards.
If you could, the chlorine would have been washed out during regen. But there are many parts involved, and if I tried to list them all, I could miss something. As at least a partial list, your filter-type valve has a filter piston, no brine valve, no injector .
So you're saying to replace the BLFC with an 8gpm (or 9) when i replace the media?
Yes!
 

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So you're saying to replace the BLFC with an 8gpm (or 9) when i replace the media?
It is the DLFC (drain line flow control) flow restrictor that will modify the Backwash flow rate.


Is replacing the KL media as simple as dumping out the old resin and putting new resin in? no gravel bed?
For filtration media such as KL installed in a regular media tank, gravel or garnet under bedding is always needed.

If the existing KL media has clumped together into a solid mass at the bottom of the tank due to insufficient backwash flow, the old media may not be able to be removed short of using a chisel and hammer to attempt to break-up the mass into smaller pieces that will fit through the 2.5" tank opening. If the old media can't be removed, the usual and easiest course of action will be to replace the tank, riser tube, bottom screen, gravel and media.

A type of tank that will not require gravel, is manufactured by Enpress. They offer tank's equipped with a Vortech bottom plate that is utilized instead of gravel, with an added benefit of the ability to reduce the drain flow rate by 15-20% to achieve equal backwash performance to gravel.

Enpress Vortech
 
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Bannerman

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The way I've done it in the past is once all the brine is drawn in, I bypass the softener and let it sit.
The recommended method will be to remove the electrical plug from the outlet once the Brine Draw cycle is started. This will prevent the control valve from advancing to the next cycle.

Once virtually all of the brine and cleaning solution has been transferred from the brine tank to the media tank, bypass the softener, thereby preventing the cleaning solution from becoming further diluted during the extended contact session with the resin. As the drain valve will remain open, this will permit any potential off gasses created by the acid cleaner reaction with the iron, to be vented out to drain instead of building-up under pressure within the tank.

For the cleaning solution, mix a substantial amount of the Iron Out, Rescare or Citric Acid with a few gallons of warm>hot water in a bucket, then add that solution into the brine tank and initiate an immediate manual regeneration. The goal is to fill the media tank with cleaning solution, so all of the resin top to bottom will be soaking in cleaner at the same time.

Once the resin has been in sufficient contact with the cleaner ( usually 1-2 hours), open the bypass valve to allow the cleaning solution to be slowly rinsed out to drain. With your large 13" media tank, you may want slow rinse to be ~1.5 hours before restoring electrical power. Once power is restored, the control valve will proceed to complete the remainder of the regeneration cycle including the 45+ minutes of slow rinse remaining from the interrupted Brine Draw cycle.

As some of the cleaning solution at the bottom of the brine tank will remain in the tank, that small amount will be diluted during Brine Fill, which will be eliminated without issue during the next subsequent regeneration cycle.


Another option will be to disconnect the brine tube from the brine tank, and draw the cleaning solution directly from the bucket. Restore the brine tube connection to the brine tank. After the extended soak session, open the bypass valve and restore electrical power. Once the initial cleaning cycle has concluded, perform a 2nd manual regeneration to further rinse the resin, and regenerate additional capacity utilizing the salt brine already prepared in the brine tank.
 
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JustaDIYer

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open the bypass valve to allow the cleaning solution to be slowly rinsed out to drain. With your large 13" media tank, you may want slow rinse to be 1.5-2 hours before restoring electrical power
ok...

Dilute cleaner in water and dump in brine tank or let it suck directly.....
Empty brine tank
bypass softener
unplug softener
let soak for a few hours
open bypass
let slow rinse for 2 hours
plug unit back in
finish regen

manually do another regen



So by opening the bypass valve, that initiates the slow rinse while unplugged?

I did unplug the unit in previous cleanings I recall now you mentioned it.
 

Bannerman

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So by opening the bypass valve, that initiates the slow rinse while unplugged?
Electrical power is utilized to advance the control valve from one cycle to the next.

Brine draw suction is created by slow rinse flow passing through the injector. As the injector functions as a venturi, slow rinse flow through the center of the venturi, creates a vacuum in the side port for the brine connection, which is utilized to draw brine from the brine tank. Once there is little liquid remaining in the brine tank, the ball within the air check valve at the bottom of the brine tank will no longer float, and so the ball will close off the brine inlet to prevent air from being drawn in during the remaining Brine Draw/Slow Rinse cycle.

The transfer of brine will typically be completed within the initial 15-minutes of a 60-minute Draw cycle. The remaining 45-minutes of Slow Rinse, will continue to slowly push the brine through the remaining resin bed, and will rinse away calcium, magnesium, chloride, iron, manganese and excess sodium to drain, before Service flow is restored.

By removing electrical power after the controller has started Brine Draw, will prevent the controller from advancing. As Slow Rinse flow is already flowing, it will continue to flow until the controller is advanced to another cycle. In bypassing the softener, no water will be supplied so slow rinse flow will be halted until the bypass valve is reopened to resume Slow Rinse flow.

As added to my prior comment, you could simply draw the cleaning solution directly from the bucket, then perform a 2nd manual regeneration to regenerate additional capacity by utilizing the brine already within the brine tank.
 

Bannerman

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how much gravel is required? Pea gravel from home depot/lowes will work right?
The gravel for water treatment will be typically 1/8"-1/4", NSF certified, and should be available from the same place from where you would obtain the new media.

For a 10" diameter media tank, 15 lbs gravel, 20 lbs for 12" diameter, and 25 lbs for a 13". These amounts are sufficient to fill each tank's bottom dome, burying the bottom distributor screen, thereby keeping the media located above the distributor screen.
 
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JustaDIYer

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ok, so i got new KL media, 15# gravel and new riser (just in case) ordered.

Is it as simple as unscrewing the control head, dumping out the water and somehow catch the old resin (hopefully it's not hardened up) and disposing of it. I'll clean the tank with some chrlorine and water thoroughly first. Then add gravel and then new media and screwing the control head back on.

Assume it'll need some rinsing first?



I'm also going to replace the pvc drain with a flexible clear line to be able to watch the drain water now, see if it changes colors when I deep clean the softener resin.
 
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Reach4

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Chances are your clear line will become opaque with rust before that long. Maybe consider a replaceable clear section cut into the PVC.

Look up what people have written, including letting the media soak for a period before backwashing. Then do extended backwash to remove fines. I don't have a procedure for you, but I suggest you find procedures that include these aspects.

You will not want an upper basket with the fine slots, but a diffuser would be good. I just took my clogged top basket off (iron filter but not KL media)

You will need a funnel to minimize spilling. Maybe put down a drop cloth to catch what you spill.
 

JustaDIYer

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Chances are your clear line will become opaque with rust before that long. Maybe consider a replaceable clear section cut into the PVC.
so replacing it then cleaning it right away, it'll be opaque?????????????? the clear line will be replaceable in the spot I'll put it, I'm not replacing the whole drain line... hahahaha, just the portion going into the sump
 

Reach4

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so replacing it then cleaning it right away, it'll be opaque?????????????? the clear line will be replaceable in the spot I'll put it, I'm not replacing the whole drain line... hahahaha, just the portion going into the sump
I don't know how long to predict. If it takes a year, that will still be usable. Even a month would be useful, considering that month would be during a time when you are investigating.

I was thinking of https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/iron-filter-nah-or-yay.111159/#post-784321
 
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