Help with Fleck 9000 setup!

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OldAtHeart

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An 18X40 tank will hold 400 lbs salt, but that size is only adequate for a 2 ft3 softener while utilizing a 10 lb/ft3 salt setting.

Reducing the salt setting to 6 lbs/ft3, that size brine tank will support up to a 3.5 ft3 softener.

While a larger capacity brine tank will be your best option, another option is to install a brine platform (brine grid) within your exsisting tank. This will elevate the salt 5" above the tank bottom. Although this will reduce the salt capacity to 350 lbs, the additional vacant space below the elevated salt will result in less fluid height for your current salt setting and will keep most of the salt elevated above the liquid.

Your exsisting brine tank with a brine grid installed, will support a 3 ft3 softener while utilizing your current 10 lb/ft3 salt setting.

See brine tank sizing chart at the link below.

https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/132

Great idea! Wish I would have thought to do that before filling the tank up with salt, now I’ll have to scoop it all out again, but this should help keep the water down to a manageable height. Thanks!
 

OldAtHeart

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See the table on https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/help-for-programming-fleck-5810.82673/#post-595983
See the note on the bottom. And here are some possibilities based on that table, for the 2 cuft softener, except that you are limited to an even number of minutes :
BLFC = 0.5
cubic ft resin = 2
Alternative C and BF pairs:
lb/cuft ; C= ; BF= ; grains/pound of salt
5.250 ; 18.6 ; 7 ; 2363
6.000 ; 20.0 ; 8 ; 2222
6.750 ; 21.5 ; 9 ; 2126
7.500 ; 23.0 ; 10 ; 2048
8.250 ; 24.4 ; 11 ; 1976
9.000 ; 25.7 ; 12 ; 1902 #Where you are at 12 minutes...
9.750 ; 26.7 ; 13 ; 1826
10.500 ; 27.5 ; 14 ; 1749
11.250 ; 28.2 ; 15 ; 1672
12.000 ; 28.7 ; 16 ; 1597
12.750 ; 29.2 ; 17 ; 1526
13.500 ; 29.5 ; 18 ; 1457
14.250 ; 29.8 ; 19 ; 1393
15.000 ; 30.0 ; 20 ; 1333
15.750 ; 30.2 ; 21 ; 1277


So choices are a bigger brine tank, or to make filling the brine tank part of regular maintenance. Note there are alternatives to 40 or 44 or 50 lb bags. If you have a little fork truck, there is something called a super sack. 1,000lbs/ 2 per pallet. OK, come to think of it, I don't remember a car wash with a fork truck.

I wasn’t clear in my previous post, but this is for my other location which has the bigger 13” tanks with 2.5cu ft of resin. In that case it seems like @Bannerman ’s suggestion of the brine grid plate on the bottom is probably the way to go?
 

Bannerman

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A larger brine tank will be your best option. When available space for a larger tank is an issue, then adding a brine grid is often a workaround.

Any tank larger than your 18"X 40" will not only support a larger capacity softener than your 2.5 ft3 unit, but will also store a greater quantity of salt, thereby reducing the frequency for fills and for monitoring remaining salt.

For example, up sizing to a 24" X 41" tank will support up to a 4 ft3 softener while utilizing a 10 lbs/ft3 salt setting, but will also increase your salt storage capacity to 700 lbs.
 

OldAtHeart

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Quick update - I got the grid plate and installed it last weekend but it seems like the water level is still about the same as it was before (which doesn’t make much sense to me). It seems to have gone high enough to trigger the float switch to stop it. The float switch is fairly high up.

How high should the water be with the grid plate installed? The brine tank fill is set to 14 minutes which should be 7 gallons (at 0.5 gal/min). Seems like the grid plate is tall enough for most of the water to fit under it? I would say my water level is about 2/3rds of the way up my brine tank even with the grid plate.

Any suggestions?
 

OldAtHeart

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Just measured and the brine goes up to about 15” from the top of the tank. Since it’s a 18x40 tank that means it is 25” high. And I am pretty sure it only stopped because it triggered the float switch. (And the brine well level is a few inches higher than the brine tank water level). The head is brand new and the brine tank valve is brand new.

I will manually run a cycle tomorrow and see what happens but this is puzzling me.
 
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Reach4

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(And the brine level is even a few inches higher than that in the brine well).
Normally it is the other way around.
I will manually run a cycle tomorrow and see what happens but this is puzzling me.
What you need to watch for is how far the brine sucks down during brine draw.

With an 18 inch round tank with salt, expect the water to rise about 16 inches with 7 gallons. That would be less if some of the rise is below the salt. Have you maxed out the float height?
 
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OldAtHeart

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Normally it is the other way around.

What you need to watch for is how far the brine sucks down during brine draw.

With an 18 inch square tank with salt, expect the water to rise about 16 inches with 7 gallons. That would be less if some of the rise is below the salt. Have you maxed out the float height?

Oops sorry - yes, it was the other way around (the level in the brine well was a few inches higher than the level in the tank). I just edited my previous post to correct that.

I have an 18 inch x 40 inch round tank. So it sounds like this brine level is certainly too high, especially since I have the grid plate in there now which should leave a lot more room for the brine at the bottom.

I will run a manual regen tomorrow and see how much of the brine gets sucked down. I assume it should get down to the level of the float valve at the bottom.

I have not maxed out the float height yet but it's pretty close to the top. Should I max it out?

Right now I am using 7 gallons of water each brine fill cycle. Would it make more sense to reduce that to 5 or 6 gallons and just regen more often? If so, which settings would I need to change for that?
 

Reach4

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I have an 18 inch x 40 inch round tank. So it sounds like this brine level is certainly too high, especially since I have the grid plate in there now which should leave a lot more room for the brine at the bottom.
Actually I made a mistake and my numbers were for a round tank.
Depends on how far down the brine sucks down. The grid plate will help, and you want the air check valve as low as possible. Brine should suck down to about mid-way on the air check valve. And try to raise that float level.

How far does the brine fill below the hole in the side of the brine tank that the brine tube passes through?
 

OldAtHeart

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Another update after watching it go through a full cycle this morning:

- Before it started, the water level in the brine tank was about 25” high (15” from the top of the tank)

- I watched the brine draw and verified that it is indeed sucking up all of the brine down to the float at the bottom of the brine valve.

- Once the brine draw stopped, I let it do the full slow rinse cycle

- While it was doing the slow rinse cycle I removed the valve from the brine tank so I could later watch it fill back up into buckets. While the float was out, I measured and noticed that there was still about 7” of brine left at the bottom of the tank. (This is probably why it fills so high up - because even after the brine draw, the water level is still above even the grid plate.). There is a chance that I removed the valve slightly before it had completed the brine draw but it wouldn’t have gone much longer anyway. The water level was definitely somewhere in the middle of the check valve when I removed it. Even if I had let it go longer it would have drawn maybe another .5-1” at most? So still 6” of water at the bottom of the tank.

- For the brine refill cycle, I lifted the float out of the tank and put it into 5 gallon buckets so I could verify how long it took and how many gallons it filled. Sure enough it took the 14 minutes it is programmed for and filled up 7 gallons

- I then dumped those 7 gallons into the brine well and watched the water level go back up to about where it was prior to the regen starting.

- After everything was done and the water level was right around the level of the salt, I added more salt and it took 3 bags (50lbs each) to be basically full. So 150lbs is about the most I can have in there before it goes below the water level. Is this normal/expected for my setup?

So it seems like it is running through its cycles properly but the main reason the water level ends up being high is because it’s already fairly high to begin with before it refills.

What is the expected height of the water level after the brine draw completes? I know it depends on the length of the valve but this is just a standard new fleck valve and brine tank and I don’t think there is a way to adjust the height?

I will attach some photos showing the heights at different stages of the cycle.

Prior to starting (water level about 15” from the top, or 25” high in a 40” tank):
BB251903-492F-4F7D-A9E6-175D556A541D.jpeg


Water level in brine well prior to starting (about 10” from the top, or 30” high on a 40” tank)
BAF12FBA-0110-4CD8-9042-28ABB088ABD5.jpeg


Hard picture to take, but this shows that it drew all of the brine down to somewhere around the middle of the check valve):
69E34C01-B2D6-420C-906E-E5B3657BC195.jpeg


Showing after the brine draw, there was still about 7” of brine left in the well (33” from the top of the water to the top of the 40” tank)
E33BD205-8155-4D2E-B207-703137E5C22E.jpeg
 

Reach4

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So you want the air check valve to be moved way down.

I think your Fleck (60002-34) Air Check Assembly has been cut too short. Can you lengthen it with stuff made to connect to 3/8 od? Or should you just order a new one and cut it down from 34 inches, but just enough that the air check valve fits near the bottom?
 

OldAtHeart

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I think you are right. Looks like I can order just that part and not the whole valve, and it’s a cheap part, so I’ll do that and set it on the bottom or very close and cut it to that size and see how it goes. Thanks again!
 

OldAtHeart

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Hopefully the final update - I received the new brine pickup tube and installed it yesterday with the check valve being at the bottom of the brine well and let it run through a cycle and now the water level is about 6” lower than it was before (and is now about 16” from the top of the tank). That should give me enough room to not have to fill the salt up all the time.

Thanks again for all of the help and advice! I have learned a ton about my softeners that I never knew before and greatly appreciate it.
 
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