Help! I need a new water system...

[Claybe]

Hi,
I installed a Fleck 5600 sxt about 10 years ago with help from this forum. It is no longer softening the water and needs to be replaced. I had a guy over last night and he said I need a new softener and recommended a "WellPro" system with a new tankless, 600 gpd RO filter. I have never heard of "WellPro" and can't find anything about it. I can install a softener and RO system myself, but need recommendations from you fine professionals! Here are the current well water numbers:
Hardness - 20 gpg
PH - 8.0
Iron - 1.5
TDS - 845 (61 from the current RO filter)
I would like to get the RO down to as close to 0 as possible.

I also have a big blue 20 micron filter and a smaller 5 micron filter before it hits the water softener. Also, I believe my well water contains Organic Iron or Ferric Iron. There is a "film" on the water in my cistern and the water feels "gritty". Thanks in advance for any help or recommendations.

 

[Reach4]

Well Pro and WellPro seem to be associated with pellet chlorinators.

By "organic iron", I guess you might mean iron reducing bacteria (IRB). I sugget santitizing your well, cistern, and plumbing, even if you get new water treatment gear.

You might also clean the cistern of sediment.

Your softener might just need the resin treated, or it might also need a rebuild kit (seals, piston, brine valve). I am not a pro.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Claybe]

Well Pro and WellPro seem to be associated with pellet chlorinators.

By "organic iron", I guess you might mean iron reducing bacteria (IRB). I sugget santitizing your well, cistern, and plumbing, even if you get new water treatment gear.

You might also clean the cistern of sediment.

Your softener might just need the resin treated, or it might also need a rebuild kit (seals, piston, brine valve). I am not a pro.

Thanks for the suggestions! Yes, I need to shock the well and will do that when I clean the cistern. I use "respro" on the softener and could probably be rebuilt, but I would prefer to get a new unit as I believe the way the media is put in the softeners has developed which helps with wear over time.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

The Flecks are actually still good units but are harder to repair

Just go out and find a CLACK dealer.... a normal 48,000 grain clack will take out around 4ppm of iron.
a 64 ,000 grain unit will take out closer to 6ppm of iron....

you can always get a air injecting Iron filter with a clack control on it too.... that might be wiser


How much did the guy want for a well pro installed??

 

[Claybe]

He wanted $2700ish for a softener and RO system but I have no idea what he would be putting in.
I had another thought…can I just replace the resin (and the piston and seals if necessary)? As far as I know everything works but it is not softening anymore, which I am assuming means the resin is not doing its job...

 

[Bannerman]

Does the softener continue to draw brine during the brine draw cycle?

20 gpg hardness is not overly excessive, but 1.5 ppm iron is considerable enough to cause the resin to become iron fouled over time. Although you mentioned using Respro, with 8.0 pH, a large amount of acidic cleaner would be required to sufficiently acidify the brine to dissolve and clean away the accumulated iron from the resin. Accumulated iron will impair the resin's ability to not only remove hardness, but will also reduce the amount of additional iron the resin is capable of removing.

Although ion exchange softener's are capable of removing some ferrous iron, softener's are primarily designed to soften water. Because removing each 1 ppm iron and/or manganese is equivalent to removing ~85 ppm (5 GPG) hardness, a softener is not an efficient iron reduction method. In addition, ongoing frequent maintenance is required to reduce/prevent iron fouling, particularly when pH exceeds 7.0.

Suggest utilizing a dedicated iron reduction system prior to a softener, regardless of new or the existing one.

There are various methods for reducing iron, including filtration media such as Katalox Light which is capable of removing ferrous iron, ferric iron, manganese, H2S, and will also provide particulate filtration down to <3 microns. KL media is utilized in a media tank which is equipped with a backwashing control valve, similar to that utilized for a water softener.

 

[Reach4]

He wanted $2700ish for a softener and RO system but I have no idea what he would be putting in.
I had another thought…can I just replace the resin (and the piston and seals if necessary)? As far as I know everything works but it is not softening anymore, which I am assuming means the resin is not doing its job...

Your water is not chlorinated.

If the softener draws brine properly, etc, you might benefit from a strong treatment with Iron Out Powder. There is a technique to keep the solution with the resin beads longer.

Is your tank unpainted, so that you can shine a light thru in the dark, and see the level of the resin?

 

[Claybe]

Does the softener continue to draw brine during the brine draw cycle?
I am not sure I will have to check this. If not, I am assuming the piston might not be working?
What kind of iron filter is recommended?
Tank is black so I can’t see the resin level. It is my understanding that I can replace the resin and inner parts and it will be basically brand new. Is that thinking wrong?

 

[Reach4]

Normal is that the brine gets drawn out in about the first 1/4 of the brine draw (BD) cycle. If BD is 60, that would be between 10 and 20 minutes. A clogged injector or injector screen could make you not draw the brine at the right rate.

Iron filter recommended? That can be complex.

 

[Claybe]

When the softener was working I had the softened water tested and iron was 0.047. I would assume that means the softener was doing its job. Does the iron number need to be lower than this?

 

[Reach4]

When the softener was working I had the softened water tested and iron was 0.047. I would assume that means the softener was doing its job. Does the iron number need to be lower than this?

A way to use Iron Out powder to treat your resin periodically to deal with iron. This is not an authoritative procedure, but it should be pretty good.

A softener is not the best way to deal with significant iron, but it can be economical or cash-flow positive.

1.Dissolve 1/2 cup to 1 cup of Iron Out powder into maybe 1 or 2 gallons of warm water.(X1: option -- maybe up the dose) Pour this down the brine tube. Agitate the brine if you can.

2. Let this sit for 2 hours to 2 weeks.

3. Start a regeneration. Usually after backwash, the brine draw cycle starts. Get to brine draw however it happens. Let the brine get drawn until the the brine tank is drawn. Alternatively monitor the drain line with a TDS meter, and look for a big increase in TDS. At that point, stop the flow of water with the bypass valve. That will let the solution sit in sure contact with the resin.

4. Let the solution sit in the resin for a time. That time might be an hour or might be 12 hours.

5. With an electronic timer, such as 5800SXT, the cycling will continue while the water is off. However since the water is blocked, the solution says in contact with the resin. Then do a full regeneration to get the solution all cleaned out.

You might watch the drain line during the start of the later regen, and see if the discharge is rust colored.

Note: various old posts have tried to describe a procedure, and I have tried to assimilate those. Go ahead and criticize this procedure. Different views can be helpful in tweaking a procedure.

There is not just one right way.

Iron Out® Rust Stain Remover - 28 oz.

Since 1958 the category leader in rust stain removal. Iron Out is the best on rust. Works on white clothes, laundry, toilets, sinks, tubs, dishwashers, exterior surfaces, and much more. Also keeps water softeners clean and operating at peak effiecency.

www.menards.com

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Iron-Out-Powder-Rust-Stain-Remover-76-oz/17133842
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Super-Iron-Out-76-oz-All-Purpose-Cleaner/1076893
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Iron-Out-76-oz-Rust-and-Stain-Remover-IO65N/202935842

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/super-iron-out

I think "Rust Out" is a clone of Iron Out.