Fernco fitting leaking

[Jimmyjames905]

Hello guys I am redoing my bathroom and I hammered through the concrete and dug down to the 4” clay pipe cut it just behind the hub and I’ve used a 4” clay to 4” ABS Fernco fitting as seen in the pics I’ll post I can’t do a water hold test on these pipes so I filled a couple buckets with water and placed my garden hose in the shower drain and dumped the buckets down toilet drain , when I checked all the joints for leaks everything passed except at the side of the Fernco I joint that clamps on clay pipe , it’s very minimal leak but still leaks I left the water running down shower drain for 20 min and the leak dripped 2-3 times as seen in the one pic of the water that leaked out in 20 min , when I cut the clay I cut it as square as I could which turned out good , cleaned the pipe and pushed fitting on all the way and tightened clamp then I settled 4” abs and tightened clamp , I don’t have a inch pound torque wrench but I used 1/4” drive ratchet to tighten clamps and even after I found leak I tried to tighten more but am afraid to tighten it too much . Would this be a result of the clamp not tight enough ? Or is there a sealant I’m supposed to use on the clay pipe side ? The fitting is and will be burried under 2’ for gravel and 4” of concrete also will mention that the condition of the clay pipe is good , no cracks , gouges or pits in it so I’m not really sure if I did something wrong . From what I’ve read and been told , these are the connecting fittings for this type of connection and people swear they work and are good . Any insight , thoughts , fixes or solutions will be highly appreciated I have some knowledge of plumbing inside a house but this is my first time doing a burried connection and want it right , thank you and looking forward to speaking for some reason it’s not allowing me to upload any photos says they are to big for server to process

 

[Jimmyjames905]

Hello guys i am redoing my bathroom and I hammered through the concrete and dug down to the 4” clay pipe cut it just behind the hub and I’ve used a 4” clay to 4” abs fernco fitting as seen in the pics I’ll post I can’t do a water hold test on these pipes so I filled a couple buckets with water and placed my garden hose in the shower drain and dumped the buckets down toilet drain , when I checked all the joints for leaks everything passed except at the side of the fern I joint that clamps on clay pipe , it’s very minimal leak but still leaks I left the water running down shower drain for 20 min and the leak dripped 2-3 times as seen in the one pic of the water that leaked out in 20 min , when I cut the clay I cut it as square as I could which turned out good , cleaned the pipe and pushed fitting on all the way and tightened clamp then I settled 4” abs and tightened clamp , I don’t have a inch pound torque wrench but I used 1/4” drive ratchet to tighten clamps and even after I found leak I tried to tighten more but am afraid to tighten it to much . Would this be a result of the clamp not tight enough ? Or is there a sealant I’m supposed to use on the clay pipe side ? The fitting is and will be burried under 2’ for gravel and 4” of concrete also will mention that the condition of the clay pipe is good , no cracks , gouges or pits in it so I’m not really sure if I did something wrong . From what I’ve read and been told , these are the connecting fittings for this type of connection and people swear they work and are good . Any insight , thoughts , fixes or solutions will be highly appreciated I have some knowledge of plumbing inside a house but this is my first time doing a burried connection and want it right , thank you and looking forward to speaking for some reason it’s not allowing me to upload any photos says they are to big for server to process

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Terry]

What is the floor layout? I'm trying to figure out if that is done right for venting or not.

If the clay is rough and not sealing, then perhaps Silicone to help it seal.

 

[Jimmyjames905]

Hello the layout is shower to the left there 2” and the sink on the right 1 1/2” the vent is in the back going up the wall 1 1/2” and it’s a vent only there is nothing coming down that line

 

[Jimmyjames905]

What is the floor layout? I'm trying to figure out if that is done right for venting or not.

If the clay is rough and not sealing, then perhaps Silicone to help it seal.

Ok I wasn’t sure if I could put silicone on these couplings or not

 

[Jimmyjames905]

Wouldn’t say clay is rough though It was really smooth all the way around

 

[Breplum]

Any horizontal run greater that five ft. must have a cleanout unless above the first floor.
Unshielded couplings are not recommend nor allowed because they easily offset and deform.
Clay is not allowed within a dwelling under the UPC.

 

[Jimmyjames905]

Any horizontal run greater that five ft. must have a cleanout unless above the first floor.
Unshielded couplings are not recommend nor allowed because they easily offset and deform.
Clay is not allowed within a dwelling under the UPC.

Hello ok this bathroom is on the first floor in my garage the clay pipe is original to the house I did not install it it is running under my garage and connects to main line in the basement . Are you saying I need to install a tee at the clay conection then run a vertical pipe up to the floor level and put a clean out on it at the garage floor ? As for fernco adapter not being allowed everything I’ve read every plumbing supply store I talked to said this is the joint I need as this is the only way to connect plastic to clay pipe not sure if our codes are different than the USA or not

 

[Reach4]

Try torqueing the bands on the flex coupling to 5 ft-lbs (60 in-lbs).

 

[wwhitney]

hello the layout is showerto the left there 2” and the sink on the right 1 1/2” the vent is in the back going up the wall 1 1/2” and it’s a vent only there is nothing coming down that line

Then that's a problem. You can't have a horizontal dry vent below the slab. And the lav needs a vent at the elevation of its trap.

If you dry vent the lav, and then arrange for the lav drain to join the shower drain close enough to the shower trap (which means before it the shower drain falls one pipe diameter, and possibly with an additional length limit), then the lav can wet vent the shower and the WC. Depending on your code, the lav drain might need to be 2" for that to work.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Breplum]

Tees are never installed on a back, a combo is a fitting that can be installed on its back.
Here is the proper coupling... I highly recommend you hire a plumber to redo your system and TEST it. Too many things to teach about what is not right with your underslab.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Fernco-1002-44RC-4-x-4-Strong-Back-PVC-Shielded-Coupling-Clay-to-Cast-Iron-or-PVC

 

[Jimmyjames905]

Tees are never installed on a back, a combo is a fitting that can be installed on its back.
Here is the proper coupling... I highly recommend you hire a plumber to redo your system and TEST it. Too many things to teach about what is not right with your underslab.

View attachment 87433

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Fernco-1002-44RC-4-x-4-Strong-Back-PVC-Shielded-Coupling-Clay-to-Cast-Iron-or-PVC

Tees are never installed on a back, a combo is a fitting that can be installed on its back.
Here is the proper coupling... I highly recommend you hire a plumber to redo your system and TEST it. Too many things to teach about what is not right with your underslab.

View attachment 87433

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Fernco-1002-44RC-4-x-4-Strong-Back-PVC-Shielded-Coupling-Clay-to-Cast-Iron-or-PVC

Thank you for your help I talked directly with fernco and the coupling I used and this one you sent are both approved for burial and both meet code requirements but i honostly like the idea of this strongback one better and should receive it tomorrow so thank you for that the plumbing supply store did not even give me this one as an option

 

[Jimmyjames905]

Then that's a problem. You can't have a horizontal dry vent below the slab. And the lav needs a vent at the elevation of its trap.

If you dry vent the lav, and then arrange for the lav drain to join the shower drain close enough to the shower trap (which means before it the shower drain falls one pipe diameter, and possibly with an additional length limit), then the lav can wet vent the shower and the WC. Depending on your code, the lav drain might need to be 2" for that to work.

Cheers, Wayne

Thank you Wayne ok I think k I follow what your saying , this is how it was all plumbed when I took apart the bathroom and broke up the concrete slab all I did was cut the clay pipe back to get rid of the cast iron pipe that was originally there ( it went from 4” clay to 3” cast to 3” ABS ) and replaced all the ABS pipes so clearly was done wrong to begin with but maybe things were different 35-40 years ago when bathroom was originally done

 

[WorthFlorida]

.........

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Fernco-1002-44RC-4-x-4-Strong-Back-PVC-Shielded-Coupling-Clay-to-Cast-Iron-or-PVC

........

I looked at the Furnco website. I could not find a Clay to Plastic (4x3) with the shielded band. If the 4x3 Furnco will still be used, try a second band around the collar.

Leak testing for DWV is more than pouring water down the pipe, it usually needs a pressure test. It could be one of two ways. You need to contact your jurisdiction permit and inspection office for the required process.

Do you have a picture of the old plumbing that was there there?

 

[Jimmyjames905]

I looked at the Furnco website. I could not find a Clay to Plastic (4x3) with the shielded band. If the 4x3 Furnco will still be used, try a second band around the collar.

Leak testing for DWV is more than pouring water down the pipe, it usually needs a pressure test. It could be one of two ways. You need to contact your jurisdiction permit and inspection office for the required process.

Do you have a picture of the old plumbing that was there there?

Hey yes I will post a pic and the coupling I have now is 4”clay to 4” ABS I believe it’s clay side being 5” and plastic side being 4” I talked to Fernco directly and they have the strong back adapter so I’m thinking of getting it but I did get a inch pound torque wrench and torqued the clamps to 60” lbs which was about 1/4 turn tighter than it was

 

[Jimmyjames905]

Then that's a problem. You can't have a horizontal dry vent below the slab. And the lav needs a vent at the elevation of its trap.

If you dry vent the lav, and then arrange for the lav drain to join the shower drain close enough to the shower trap (which means before it the shower drain falls one pipe diameter, and possibly with an additional length limit), then the lav can wet vent the shower and the WC. Depending on your code, the lav drain might need to be 2" for that to work.

Cheers, Wayne

Hey Wayne ok here is my layout on one pic and what I’ve done on the other

 

[Jimmyjames905]

Can I do this ?

 

[Jimmyjames905]

Can I do this ?

Which is basically move the vent over to other wall and down and tee into my sink trap ? Or do I have to move where the shower and sink drains meet ?

 

[Jeff H Young]

post 17 looks ok post 19 doesn't the shower should come off the horizontal lav line looks like you are using vent 90s or medium sweep where should be long sweeps Canada might be good but still a bad way to do it

 

[wwhitney]

Can I do this ?

Probably. You are definitely going to need the dry vent at the lav (sink), so that part is correct. Then the shower drain and the WC can be wet vented by the lavatory with the connection order shown. Two details you need to get right for it to be code compliant:

1) The length of the shower trap arm, from the trap outlet to the wye where it joins the lav, is limited. It's definitely limited to one pipe diameter of fall, so at 2" and a minimum slope of 1/4" per foot, that limits it to 8' in length. Your code might have a shorter length limit; one US code does, and one doesn't, so you need to check. The fall limit applies regardless.

So you need to determine the length limit and confirm your layout complies, or reroute the lav drain and/or shower drain to make it comply.

2) Conventionally, the combined lav/shower would join the WC with a horizontal wye, i.e. each connection to the wye would be at 2% slope. You have it with an upright wye, where the WC comes in horizontally, and the lav/shower comes into the side branch at the top at 45 degrees off plumb. So you need to check your code to see if has some language that would require the wye to be horizontal.

Cheers, Wayne