I had cracked tiles in my alcove shower curb when I removed them there was rotting boards and mold that extends into the partial wall. Attached is the picture. My question is can I just removed and replace the front curb wood and remove the partial wall then add sliding doors or should I tear the whole shower out and either go with new pan/backerboard/tile or put in an acrylic corner shower kit? Any help appreciated not sure what would be best with this situation. Also trying to go with the easiest DIY route.
Curb leaking and mold. What to do
- Thread starter Cory I
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A built up shower like that has a liner that collects the water for the drain. At this point, you are looking at redoing the entire shower at least up to the point that a liner goes up to.
Kit's don't fit an alcove like that. I suppose if you removed the wall there, there may be a chance for a standard pan and wall setup. But not as an alcove.
Kit's don't fit an alcove like that. I suppose if you removed the wall there, there may be a chance for a standard pan and wall setup. But not as an alcove.
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Standardairconditioner
HVAC'ker
This is a great example situation why showers should never be built with materials that habor water, yet people keep using them because it's all they know.
Yeah, backerboard as in Durock or cement. Not sure when the shower was done but the house was built in 78. Terry thanks I will probably be tearing down that wall anyway and if I do that I might as well rip everything out down to the studs and see what those look like. I'm sure will have to replace some of them. I was just hoping not to go that far.
Standardairconditioner
HVAC'ker
And people really should stop using that.
Jadnashua
Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
The shower pan should be flood tested before the setting bed (talking a conventional clamping drain liner shower here) to check for leaks. Then, you CANNOT just nail cbu up onto the curb...that penetrates the liner, and voids any effect it may have had. The TCNA lists numerous methods to build a reliable, long-lasting, leak free shower, and cbu has a place in many of them BUT, it must be done properly, and the vast majority of installers either don't care, or don't have a clue on how to do it right. My preference is to avoid the clamping drain and liner, and use a surface applied sheet membrane. That puts the waterproofing (not just water resistant) layer all over and immediately below the tile, which means very little can ever get wet, and it's all non-organic, so nothing internal to ever rot.
Erico
Member
Was there even any water proofing or liner covering that curb? It looks like one of those jobs where someone mistakenly thought the tile and grout are waterproof. Looks like a complete tear out.
You can build a leak proof shower with a PVC liner, clamping drain, cement board walls and mud pan. Like everything else, it has to be done right - pre-sloped before liner goes in, no penetrations in the liner, leak tested, properly wrapped curb etc.
I prefer surface applied liquid membrane on top of the cement board to keep the wall dry (versus behind the wall vapor barrier). It also makes tiling easier as the cement doesn't suck the thinset dry while you are setting tiles.
You can build a leak proof shower with a PVC liner, clamping drain, cement board walls and mud pan. Like everything else, it has to be done right - pre-sloped before liner goes in, no penetrations in the liner, leak tested, properly wrapped curb etc.
I prefer surface applied liquid membrane on top of the cement board to keep the wall dry (versus behind the wall vapor barrier). It also makes tiling easier as the cement doesn't suck the thinset dry while you are setting tiles.
Thanks all, Erico I think I am going to go with complete tear out, replace any bad studs, new cement board. Poured and sloped shower pan without the liner. then apply the liquid membrane. From what I have read when applied properly you don't need the pan with the liquid membrane and it is code. Though it seems some don't like this method. Also going to tear out the partial wall and put in a concrete poured curb along that whole outer edge then put in new tile and glass shower doors. Also that will let me get a look at the studs in between the bath/shower that is right next to this shower.
Standardairconditioner
HVAC'ker
You do know that "cement board" is cellulose and absorbs water, right?
Again, may want to stop using materials that aren't waterproof.
standard,
I have been trying to ignore you since you have nothing helpful to say so far but if you have a better suggestion than cement board which seems to be widely used then please, enlighten me as to what you would use instead.
I have been trying to ignore you since you have nothing helpful to say so far but if you have a better suggestion than cement board which seems to be widely used then please, enlighten me as to what you would use instead.
Standardairconditioner
HVAC'ker
Just because something is widely used, doesn't mean it isn't obselete. Just like sanded grout. There are tons of old timers that still think maintenance-free epoxy grout is evil.
Schluter Kerdi-board cuts with a knife, lightweight to handle and size on studs, and saves days of labor as there is no waterproofing required. Thinset spreads right onto it. A contractor can collect from the homewoner the same from an agreed quote, but finish a job ahead of schedule.
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Jadnashua
Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
There are two classes of CBU out there, those that are all inert (mostly cement and aggregate), and what is referred to as fiber-cement boards (HardieBacker is one of those - it contains up to 15% cellulose).
There are two sheet membrane manufacturers that have had their membrane installation certified for use over plain drywall: Schluter's Kerdi (been around for about 25-years), and Laticrete's Hydroban sheet (not their liquid - sheet first available mid-2014). So, the one with the longest history by far is Kerdi.
While some places do not require a liner on a recessed pan on a cement slab, I think that it's a major mistake. Be aware that while a liquid applied waterproofing can work, it is, IMHO, a lot harder to do it right than some other methods. It's just too easy to end up with a pinhole or thick and thin layers that ultimately, don't work quite as designed. If you choose to go that route, make sure that you pick up an (inexpensive) wet film thickness gauge, and ensure two things: you know how to use it correctly (you'd be surprised how many people don't), and that you get your wet layers (they all require at least two) applied within the min/max wet thickness. Give two people the same roller or brush, and you'll get significantly different coverage rates. The liquid stuff needs the minimum at least, and exceeding the maximum can lead to failures, too. Watch the required timing on application and the wait before flood testing or you'll ruin things right off the bat.
There are two sheet membrane manufacturers that have had their membrane installation certified for use over plain drywall: Schluter's Kerdi (been around for about 25-years), and Laticrete's Hydroban sheet (not their liquid - sheet first available mid-2014). So, the one with the longest history by far is Kerdi.
While some places do not require a liner on a recessed pan on a cement slab, I think that it's a major mistake. Be aware that while a liquid applied waterproofing can work, it is, IMHO, a lot harder to do it right than some other methods. It's just too easy to end up with a pinhole or thick and thin layers that ultimately, don't work quite as designed. If you choose to go that route, make sure that you pick up an (inexpensive) wet film thickness gauge, and ensure two things: you know how to use it correctly (you'd be surprised how many people don't), and that you get your wet layers (they all require at least two) applied within the min/max wet thickness. Give two people the same roller or brush, and you'll get significantly different coverage rates. The liquid stuff needs the minimum at least, and exceeding the maximum can lead to failures, too. Watch the required timing on application and the wait before flood testing or you'll ruin things right off the bat.
Standardairconditioner
HVAC'ker
Erico
Member
I'm going to have to give that stuff a try next time. Dealing with heavy dirty dusty CBU is a pain in the arse.
What is the advantage to that over drywall and full (mostly full) sheets of kerdi?
Will all those build-ups over the penetrations cause a problem with mosaic? I suppose one could always float skim the wall if necessary.
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Jadnashua
Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
If you don't already have a backer on the walls, you can install one and waterproof it at the same time with KerdiBoard. Much faster, and it also adds a bit of insulation, if that might be an advantage, too. You only need one fastener about every 12", and you can use one fastener on the edge of two sheets to hold both of them up, which also saves on hardware and increases speed, too.
Kerdi is about 8-mils thick...Kerdiband, that you use to seam things, is 5-mils thick. If you manage the overlaps well, it's not an issue. If you're using the Kerdi sheet, and the tile doesn't care, you can overlap the sheets verses using Kerdiband after butting them together. Making seams with Kerdi is not like doing drywall compound which usually creates a dome rather than being flat. To bond things and get the seam waterproof, you don't want or need much thinset between the sheets. IOW, most of it gets squeegeed out when embedding them in place. You don't need lots of pressure.
Kerdi is about 8-mils thick...Kerdiband, that you use to seam things, is 5-mils thick. If you manage the overlaps well, it's not an issue. If you're using the Kerdi sheet, and the tile doesn't care, you can overlap the sheets verses using Kerdiband after butting them together. Making seams with Kerdi is not like doing drywall compound which usually creates a dome rather than being flat. To bond things and get the seam waterproof, you don't want or need much thinset between the sheets. IOW, most of it gets squeegeed out when embedding them in place. You don't need lots of pressure.
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