Considering several Totos -- which will fit 11" rough-in?

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PeachPit

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My bathroom is pretty small. I'm having a remodel done which will involve ripping 1950s Pepto Bismol pink tiles off all the walls and replacing the tub, toilet, and sink.

The contractor has suggested removing the 1-1/2" of baseboard and replacing it with a short tile backslash matching the new floor tile which would then extend out only about 1/4" from the wall. I'm not sold yet on that idea, but if the existing baseboard stays, it will extend out 1-1/2" from the wall (sans tile), which seems like it would make it impossible to get a Toto in there because they seem to sit much closer to the wall at the bottom than my current old AS Cadet (which has a good 3" of space from the existing baseboard to the bottom of the toilet at floor level).

I don't want the toilet to extend beyond 28" from the wall because of limited space (would prefer closer to 27"). So I am looking at compact elongated or round seats.

Given all that, I'm thinking about the following:

  • Aquia II CST416M
  • Entrada CST243EF
  • Ultramax MS853113S
I thought about the Drake II, but it extends 28-1/2".

I'm also confused about the rough-in. As near as I can tell, my rough-in is 11" from the wall surface (9-1/4" from center bolt to baseboard plus 1-1/2" baseboard plus 1/4" wall tile that is going to be removed). All the toilets I look at seem to have 12" rough-ins.

So -- I'd sure appreciate any feedback on whether any of these will work with the shorter rough-in, as well as thoughts about the fit against the wall -- I'm open to suggestions for other toilets too!

Thanks.
 

Jadnashua

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IF you flange was at exactly 12" from the wall, any 12" RI toilet would fit. There is essentially always at least some gap behind the toilet when installed in a perfect world. That being said, you have to look at the specs on the specific toilet you like the looks of. Many of the Toto's have about 3/4" behind it, and, you can often fudge things at least 1/4" by sliding the toilet bolts a little towards the front of the flange. There are 10" RI toilets, that would have plenty of room but would stick out further into the room by that 1.25" extra your flange is forward than ideal. So, any 10" RI toilet would fit (but extend out more than you want), and many of the Totos with a Unifit adapter would also work IF you fudged the adapter forward a bit. Those are all probably a bit longer than you want, though. Some of the Toto models have in excess of an inch behind them in the perfect world, which would make them fit on your 11.25" RI.

So, understanding that you can fudge the position of the toilet at least 1/4", add that to your desired toilet and look at the nominal gap behind, and those will fit.
 

WJcandee

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Toto Original Drake CST744E, maybe with new tank option, CST744EN, would fit on 11". However, that Baseboard may be an issue. I will have to look at mine.
 

PeachPit

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IF you flange was at exactly 12" from the wall, any 12" RI toilet would fit. There is essentially always at least some gap behind the toilet when installed in a perfect world. That being said, you have to look at the specs on the specific toilet you like the looks of. Many of the Toto's have about 3/4" behind it, and, you can often fudge things at least 1/4" by sliding the toilet bolts a little towards the front of the flange. There are 10" RI toilets, that would have plenty of room but would stick out further into the room by that 1.25" extra your flange is forward than ideal. So, any 10" RI toilet would fit (but extend out more than you want), and many of the Totos with a Unifit adapter would also work IF you fudged the adapter forward a bit. Those are all probably a bit longer than you want, though. Some of the Toto models have in excess of an inch behind them in the perfect world, which would make them fit on your 11.25" RI.

So, understanding that you can fudge the position of the toilet at least 1/4", add that to your desired toilet and look at the nominal gap behind, and those will fit.

That helps -- knowing there is a fudge factor for that rough-in. Your explanation helps me understand better how to look at the specs for the toilets. And wjcandee, I may remove that baseboard if it is a problem and just use the 1/4" tile instead.
 

Reach4

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IF you flange was at exactly 12" from the wall, any 12" RI toilet would fit.
I think at least some of the skirted Totos with 12 inch Unifit would not fit due to the baseboard if installed at 12 inches from the wall with the described baseboard. I doubt my Vespin II would fit under those conditions. I have a baseboard plus quarter-round. If I had gotten the Soiree, I expect I would have had to move the toilet out farther. The Unifit does offer flexibility. I stretched that beyond the norms for my odd rough-in by drilling my own bolt holes in the Unifit while being careful that the exit hole was not blocked at all by my 4-inch flange.

As others pointed out, many of the Toto toilets have a lot of room at the baseboard area, but not the skirted toilets and probably none of the Unifits.
 

PeachPit

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As others pointed out, many of the Toto toilets have a lot of room at the baseboard area, but not the skirted toilets and probably none of the Unifits.

hmmm...this is getting more complicated! I appreciate all the help for a newbie like me.

I hadn't heard of Unifit before, but from what I can tell at the Toto site, the Unifit adapts a skirted toilet to a standard rough-in? Is it used for other of their toilets as well? How would I tell which ones used it? (not clear from the Toto descriptions of individual toilets).

It's looking like my baseboard needs to go ;-)
 

Reach4

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I was pretty much saying that the toilets that use Unifit would probably not be a good choice with your baseboard. A compromise to taking out the baseboard would be to only cut that away where the toilet is. The Unifit toilets come with a 12 inch adapter, and a 10 or 14 is an optional buy.

https://terrylove.com/pdf/cst744eg-specs.pdf is the extended Drake that wjcandee suggested. It has been pointed out that your feet are pretty much in the same position on a non-elongated or elongated toilet. So while the extra length of extended would affect those walking by, it would not hurt the toe room of the user.

Is cost very significant to you? The skirted toilets and one-piece toilets cost more. But the style is worth more money to many.

I wanted an elongated bowl, but I also wanted to minimize the extension into the room.
https://terrylove.com/forums/index....eze-the-14-unifit-or-stick-with-the-12.59681/ together with the thread linked to in reply 7 describe what I did. I adapted the 12 inch Unifit to about a 13.25 rough-in. I could have used the 14 inch and modified it. But the 12 inch was included with the toilet. That home-brew modification I did would probably not be what a pro would want to do. But it is all hidden and very functional. Note Unifit requires drilling holes in the floor for screws. That is a little hard with ceramic tile but very hard with porcelain.

While you are at it, make sure your water supply location is not going to be a problem. If you have your pipe closer to middle than the norm, that can affect your choices too.
 
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PeachPit

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So I'm assuming from your experience that the Unifit can be flexed to a larger rough-in or a smaller one? You adapted 12" toilet to a 13" rough-in; I'll be moving in the opposite direction (12" toilet to an 11" rough-in). I don't think I'll be able to avoid hole-drilling, since the floor is ceramic tile.

I had considered the Drake but it extends out about 1-1/2" more than the Drake II. I'm with you -- I want to minimize the extension into the room as the first consideration. Apart from that, because I'll be putting in a very clean-lined tub I want the toilet not to be too squat or "frilly" (e.g., I want something plain but nice looking). I don't care if it's skirted or one-piece; I'm fine with a two-piece unskirted. I'm also not too concerned with height. I don't mind paying more, but if I can find something that works and fits for less that would be great (hence the inclusion of the Entrada into the mix).

The existing toilet sits right next to and parallel with the tub/shower, so it if extends out too far it affects easy passage into the tub. Right now there is about 31" clearance in front of the toilet, which is fine -- that is with my current toilet extending out about 27". But I am concerned about it getting tight if I go up to a 29" or 30" toilet both in terms of passing by it to get to the shower and maintaining scale with the rest of the bathroom. Maybe I"m over-thinking this and a longer toilet would be just fine.

I don't think the water supply line will be a problem; it sits to the left by several inches. But thanks for pointing that out as a consideration looking at the base of the toilet -- I will pay attention to that moving forward.
 

Reach4

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So I'm assuming from your experience that the Unifit can be flexed to a larger rough-in or a smaller one? You adapted 12" toilet to a 13" rough-in; I'll be moving in the opposite direction (12" toilet to an 11" rough-in). I don't think I'll be able to avoid hole-drilling, since the floor is ceramic tile.

Guess my pictures did not scare you off. Is the baseboard as good as gone?

Remember I had the 4 inch flange, so I could offset more without having the exit flow from the Unifit being partially blocked by the flange. Getting it set in took me a lot of time and care. I am slow.
 

Jadnashua

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Toto's Unifit adapter is unique to them, and only fits certain toilets. Those toilets won't work without it. With most makes, if you have a 10 or 14" rough in, the company uses the same bowl, and then either uses a shallower or deeper tank to account for the space behind. With Toto toilets that use the Unifit, you use exactly the same toilet, and select the proper Unifit adapter to make things fit. This keeps the toilet sitting at EXACTLY the same position in the room on either a 10, 12, or 14" RI flange (on those others, the toilet just ends up longer when used on a 14" toilet - you'd lose 2" into the room). Those that use the Unifit, typically have 3/4" behind them when the RI is exact, so at 11", it would be a close fudge, but it should work....there would not be much of any gap behind the toilet, but normally, that isn't an issue. So, since you'd be installing it with no gap (or a very small one), the drawings would need to be adjusted by that 1" back towards the wall.
 

PeachPit

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Toto's Unifit adapter is unique to them, and only fits certain toilets. Those toilets won't work without it. With most makes, if you have a 10 or 14" rough in, the company uses the same bowl, and then either uses a shallower or deeper tank to account for the space behind. With Toto toilets that use the Unifit, you use exactly the same toilet, and select the proper Unifit adapter to make things fit. This keeps the toilet sitting at EXACTLY the same position in the room on either a 10, 12, or 14" RI flange (on those others, the toilet just ends up longer when used on a 14" toilet - you'd lose 2" into the room). Those that use the Unifit, typically have 3/4" behind them when the RI is exact, so at 11", it would be a close fudge, but it should work....there would not be much of any gap behind the toilet, but normally, that isn't an issue. So, since you'd be installing it with no gap (or a very small one), the drawings would need to be adjusted by that 1" back towards the wall.

OK, that all makes sense -- thank you!

How do you tell which Toto toilets require the Unifit adapter? I'm looking at the spec sheets for the Entrada, Drake II, and Aquia and don't see anything about Unifit under components or installation notes.
 

JMac

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The Aquia I'm not sure about, but I can tell you that the Entrada, Drake, and Drake II are not Unifit equipped units.
 

WJcandee

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Well...

The Original Drake CST744E, comes in a 10" rough-in version, CST744EF.10 or with new tank option CST744EFN.10

The Entrada, no mas.

The Drake II comes in a version with the unifit, called the Vespin II, CST474CEFG. Same tank, but with Unifit-mounted skirted bowl.

The Aquia comes in a 10" rough-in version, CST412MF.10.

Good luck.
 
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