4 wall hung toilets with problems

Users who are viewing this thread

Deck House NIC

New Member
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
01773
Hi all

Long post as I have 4 toilets. Apologies. We just moved in to a Deck House with 4 toilets. We have well water. All 4 toilets are American Standard wall mounts most likely original to the 1960's that are high water users and have long slow flushes. The only identifier F4049184 seems to pull up no internet results. All 4 toilets are in various states of nastiness. All four have mold and corrosion inside of them and have various amounts of mold under the tank and bowl. I've found 2 toilets with Bully tank inserts (we are on septic by the way). Empty and also moldy. The two main toilets (master and upstairs guest) have more serious issues.

I know for sure the master sweats pretty bad (we just had a week of high temp, high humidity so it was obvious). I have heard it run occasionally. It has the worst mold issues.

The guest bath (our daughter's main toilet) has a leak that has caused damage to the dry wall and plywood below. We have not yet taken off the toilet from the wall (though water is turned off) or dug in to the wall to see the extent of the damage. It has a definite leak at the back of the mount (perhaps at the gasket?) as I can see water dripping after a flush.

We really dislike the look of most wall mounted toilets with tanks (American Standard, Gerber). We don't really want to pay / nor are we sure with the well water that an in wall tank system makes sense.

We've found lots of european rear flush/ output toilets that could be an option but they appear to be pretty limited in the US and none in showrooms. Duravit does appear to have models that can be done as horizontal or vertical but the costs with them add up and I worry about things lining up right.

Roca makes an in toilet tank system that requires a power supply (meridian in tank wall hung toilet with integrated tank). I have no idea if local plumbers would know how to install of if anyone here has used them before.

So, I know we should replace our two main toilets. The smaller more efficient tanks should help with sweating. I know we should replace all corroded tank components to the two downstairs toilets. But what to pick and what might be best for our situation just eludes me.

Any thoughts or advice, things I am missing, toilet recommendations would be greatly appreciated!!!
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
37,981
Reaction score
4,198
Points
113
Location
IL
I looked up "deck house". https://www.deckhouse.com/brand/deck-house/ says "The Deck House is a stunning and historic style of architecture, which is available exclusively through Acorn Deck House Company." I suspect you might disagree with that definition.
 
Last edited:

Jadnashua

Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
Messages
32,772
Reaction score
1,190
Points
113
Location
New England
More modern toilets definitely will use less water. Well water can be quite cold. If the toilet is leaking, the toilet can be refilling nearly constantly depending on the fill valve, keeping things cold often enough to condense.

Modern toilets use MUCH less water, and even though their tank is larger than the flush would seem to dictate, they do that for a reason...it provides a bit more 'head pressure' to aid the flush, and then they don't use all of the water in the tank. This means that there's some room temperature water left, unless used frequently), to help temper any incoming fresh water to help prevent reaching the dew point.

Tearing out the carrier and installing an in-wall tank one won't be inexpensive, nor would trying to convert things to a typical floor flange. Finding a floor-mount, rear outlet toilet where the outlet would line up would be pot luck...not likely, but you may be. When it comes to either wall-hung or rear outlet toilets, your choices get really limited, and partly because of that, less competition, and therefore, increased costs.

IF the wall seal is shot, that leak can create a major source of rot over time.

I think your first endeavor would be to remove at least one toilet, check for structural integrity, make whatever repairs, and install the things with a new seal and refurb the interior with probably a new fill valve and flapper. If the thing doesn't run continuously, you may eliminate or at least minimize condensation. There are fixes for that, but a new toilet may be easier...you'd run a hot water line nearby, install a tempering valve to refill the toilet with warm enough water to stay above the dew point so it won't sweat.
 

Terry

The Plumbing Wizard
Staff member
Messages
29,948
Reaction score
3,446
Points
113
Location
Bothell, Washington
Website
terrylove.com
Changing out your plumbing to in-wall tanks like the Gerberit and Kohler will be very difficult. If you have back to back toilets, even more so.
Gerber does make a nice wall hung toilet with tank that fits with what you have. Those are an easy installation. Going to in-wall tanks means replumbing the bathrooms, after removing wall board for access. You will also have to reframe the walls.

maxwell_wh_wood.jpg


Standard four bolt installation with the Gerber Maxwell wall hung.
 

Deck House NIC

New Member
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
01773
Thank you for the replies. The Gerber is ok. We're working with a plumbing company and hoping that some of the Duravit rear (horizontal) outlet options will work with our rough in. We have the contractor taking the toilet off monday. Will assess the damage to the wall and floor then get the right measurement for us. If we luck out, we'll be able to change them out for the rear outlet floor type from Duravit. If the height is bad, we may need to go this option.

Also, I believe the Gerber is pressure assist. Does that mean fairly loud flushing?
 

Jadnashua

Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
Messages
32,772
Reaction score
1,190
Points
113
Location
New England
Pressure assisted toilets tend to be noisier than gravity flushers.
 

Terry

The Plumbing Wizard
Staff member
Messages
29,948
Reaction score
3,446
Points
113
Location
Bothell, Washington
Website
terrylove.com
The Gerber Maxwell is gravity with a 3" flush valve. It comes in wall hung and floor mounted rear outlet. They are quiet.

 
Last edited:

Deck House NIC

New Member
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
01773
Contractor came by and pulled the toilet out. Thankfully the damage was pretty minimal (though not on my wallet). Wax gasket had disintegrated. They replaced it with another wax gasket and put toilet on. He said the fill valve was running constantly so water was cycling through all the time. Also told us our rough in was at 5 inches from the floor (wall outlet).

Couple of follow up questions -

I had someone with similar problems recommend this gasket https://saniseal.com/ Has anyone used it before? Is it preferable to the wax rings for a wall mount?

I'm planning to go to Home Depot and replace the fill valve today and flapper so we can at least use this toilet for a few weeks. Any particular pieces of advice for this? It seems like it should be straightforward...

Lastly, the 5 in rough seems like it may complicate our options for new toilets. This does seem correct as the American Standard we have is listed as a 5 1/2. Most of the Duravits (floor mounted, rear outlet) are 7in but they sell connectors that gives them more options. The wall mounts (including Gerber Maxwell) list at 4 inches. What's the work around for this?

Thanks!
 

WJcandee

Wise One
Messages
3,179
Reaction score
170
Points
63
Location
New York, NY
The Sani-Seal claims that it also works on wall-hungs, but I think most plumbers here would use a neoprene or similar gasket, which are purpose-made for wall-hungs by a number of brands. Your local plumbing supply place (NOT the big box) can aim you in the right direction, and maybe some of the guys who work on these regularly could recommend a brand they like.

Many folks on here like the Korky 528MP fill valve. It's easy to install, installs in a wide-variety of toilets, works well, and is easy to repair when the interior seal wears out in 5-10 years. (All the operating parts are in a little $3 cap inside the valve.) Korky should also make a flapper for your product. www.korky.com Be sure to get the 528MP, not the white-cap or blue-cap or red-cap one. The 528MP has a silver ("platinum") cap. (HD might call it the 528MPK. That's just their number.)

In our properties, I have installed the 528MP (or the 528PRO, which is similar) in everything from an AS toilet made in 1927 to a number of standard older toilets, to 3 new-ish Totos, to a mid-80s unusual AS lowboy toilet that came with a complex and expensive fill valve. 8 toilets. The Korky quickly and easily replaced the original fill valve in all of them, is quiet, and shuts off cleanly and completely.
 
Last edited:

Deck House NIC

New Member
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
01773
So I installed the korky platinum. That went fine. Thanks for the recommendation.

I’ve run into a problem with the flapper. It’s a strange looking American Standard flapper that all our toilets have. I don’t know how to attach a regular flapper to it. I’ve changed regular flappers before but this is new to me. Any suggestions?
 

Attachments

  • 437A9BB8-E0C6-40A2-B323-172E90F4DECD.jpeg
    437A9BB8-E0C6-40A2-B323-172E90F4DECD.jpeg
    69.5 KB · Views: 610
  • 7387362E-6C25-47B5-9C65-584F0BCCB0D8.jpeg
    7387362E-6C25-47B5-9C65-584F0BCCB0D8.jpeg
    60.6 KB · Views: 531

WJcandee

Wise One
Messages
3,179
Reaction score
170
Points
63
Location
New York, NY
Ahhh, the Tilt Flush! It has a disk on the bottom that you just spin off and spin on the new one. Or snap off and snap on, depending on the model. Here are the instructions: https://images.homedepot-static.com/catalog/pdfImages/0d/0d9bd405-400f-4113-8f5c-80835f27c4e7.pdf

Lots of folks make the replacement.

Korky makes the 421BP: https://www.korky.com/products/flapper-seal-replacements/fits-american-standard-combo-seat-disc

At HD, they have the Fluidmaster one: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Fluidmaster-American-Standard-Seat-Disc-5103/203763987?cm_mmc=Shopping|THD|G|0|G-BASE-PLA-AllProducts|&gclid=Cj0KCQjwv-DaBRCcARIsAI9sba8uewjnu2qb8BCS5axASge59ttaXChZuyzwqBjpZRR6oxPmGHuQ0kIaApmYEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CLihpe-du9wCFWK4swodptgKlw

But at your local plumbing supply or hardware store, they should have those and/or other brands. LASCO (Larsen Supply) makes one as well, model 251677, for example. Here's what it looks like, and a lot of places would carry it. https://www.coxhardware.com/p-11409...D7hbolknF3Vi8N_ZTYhiMvwEBg9KKktYaAhurEALw_wcB

The red ones would probably resist high-chlorine water better than the black one, but the black one is usually a bit more malleable and may seal a little-more reliably (and is cheaper). But the reality is that they should all work just fine. I would just grab whichever decent-brand one is available closest to your home.


PS Nice installation job on the 528MP! I see you cut the refill hose to the right length and adjusted the refill percentage using the little knob-thingy. It should work well for a long time.
 
Last edited:
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks