3" PVC DWV Wye and 45° Elbow Combo w/ 2" L Side Inlet

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Reach4

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Charlotte ConnecTite fittings are more expensive, but they might have some use for you. They will have some adjustability including the ability to rotate. So if concerned about one joint needing to be rotated just right, a ConnecTite might be helpful. They are like SharkBites, but for DWV.
 

DaveNewhampshire

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Charlotte ConnecTite fittings are more expensive, but they might have some use for you. They will have some adjustability including the ability to rotate. So if concerned about one joint needing to be rotated just right, a ConnecTite might be helpful. They are like SharkBites, but for DWV.
That is a good option, Reach4, thanks for the info. I believe they are approved under IPC, but what are the professional opinions on the ConnecTite fittings? Do you guys only use it when primer/cement is not a good option, or have you plumbed whole houses with it? Or are they like the Sharkbite pressure fittings, where there are mixed opinions? In a tight joist bay, it may be helpful to use. Thanks
 

DaveNewhampshire

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Od

If you can't stay vertical below the flood rim you don't have to. Provide a cleanout for the vent. But generally there's a way.
John ... I was looking for an exception for the horizontal vent below the flood rim under IPC, but I could not find one. Do you have a reference or are you saying it can be common sense? Thanks
 

John Gayewski

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John ... I was looking for an exception for the horizontal vent below the flood rim under IPC, but I could not find one. Do you have a reference or are you saying it can be common sense? Thanks
I'm a UPC guy. The wording allows for "structural conditions". Ipc I'm not as studied up on.
 

John Gayewski

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That is a good option, Reach4, thanks for the info. I believe they are approved under IPC, but what are the professional opinions on the ConnecTite fittings? Do you guys only use it when primer/cement is not a good option, or have you plumbed whole houses with it? Or are they like the Sharkbite pressure fittings, where there are mixed opinions? In a tight joist bay, it may be helpful to use. Thanks
Never used them. If they have a UPC stamp on them id considered it. But as of now I'm not sure they are legal. Id have to research it.
 

DaveNewhampshire

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If you want feedback before cementing, you could spatially arrange the fittings in their relative positions and orientations, I can imagine the pipes. Or you could use very short sections for a dry fit mockup.

Cheers, Wayne
Wayne
Never used them. If they have a UPC stamp on them id considered it. But as of now I'm not sure they are legal. Id have to research it.
This is from the Connectite website:

1649022753517.png
 

DaveNewhampshire

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If you want feedback before cementing, you could spatially arrange the fittings in their relative positions and orientations, I can imagine the pipes. Or you could use very short sections for a dry fit mockup.

Cheers, Wayne
Wayne (and others), see attached pictures for the floorplan/layouts and pics of the actual joist bays and above floor. I believe my best option to avoid the horizontal dry vent below flood rim is to use the wet vent off the double lav fixture as previously discussed.

I believe I have seen it stated that the WC has to be vented within 6', so I think I will have to use floor plan Scenario 1 as the routing so I can stay right at the 6' mark. I have also seen it somewhere that 3" pipes can go 12' before being vented, but not sure if that includes a WC or not. I could save drilling one hole in the joist and have a more simple route if I can use Scenario 2, but that puts the vent over 6' from the WC.

The bathtub (BT) and shower do not take a direct route but I have routed them to a vertical wall so I can dry vent those.

Please feel free to comment if you see something that either (1) does not meet code, or (2) is not the most efficient or best practice way of doing it. Right now I have only cut holes in the floor for the WC flange and the bottom plate of the double fixture wall, and nothing has been cemented in yet so I can change just about anything right now.

Hopefully it all makes sense, but if not feel free to ask for clarification. Thank you very much!

floor plan fixtures.jpgplumbing scenario 1.jpgplumbing scenario 2.jpg
floor plan fixtures.jpg
plumbing scenario 1.jpg
plumbing scenario 2.jpg
joist bay plumbing.jpg
joist bay plumbing 2.jpg
IMG_1882.jpg
IMG_1883.jpg
 

wwhitney

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I believe I have seen it stated that the WC has to be vented within 6',
That's a UPC requirement. In the IPC it's unlimited.

But the WC gets vented either via a dry vent before its drain joins any others, or by a wet vent as its drain first joins other drains. So in scenario 1 you have the WC wet vented by the lav; in scenario 2 you have it wet vented by the tub and/or shower.

The dry vented tub could wet vent the shower. But dry venting them both is fine. If you are going to dry vent them both, you might just run the tub left-right on the page to wet vent the WC drain near the closet flange. That strikes me as a little more direct.

I believe that when using a double fixture fitting, it's advisable to have a cleanout above or below it, as it can be hard to shake from one of the trap arms and reliably go down the drain, rather than across to the other lav.

Cheers, Wayne
 

DaveNewhampshire

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That's a UPC requirement. In the IPC it's unlimited.

But the WC gets vented either via a dry vent before its drain joins any others, or by a wet vent as its drain first joins other drains. So in scenario 1 you have the WC wet vented by the lav; in scenario 2 you have it wet vented by the tub and/or shower.

The dry vented tub could wet vent the shower. But dry venting them both is fine. If you are going to dry vent them both, you might just run the tub left-right on the page to wet vent the WC drain near the closet flange. That strikes me as a little more direct.

I believe that when using a double fixture fitting, it's advisable to have a cleanout above or below it, as it can be hard to shake from one of the trap arms and reliably go down the drain, rather than across to the other lav.

Cheers, Wayne
Good to know about the IPC being unlimited for WC ... at first I wondered why, but then I read that WC don't really need a vent to drain itself, as long as the other fixtures are adequately vented so the whoosh of the WC doesn't syphon out the traps of other fixtures.

I guess I have to brush up on wet venting concepts, because I thought the double lav was the wet vent in either scenario, but I see how you are saying it depends when it joins other drains, in scenario 2 it joins the shower drain first.

I don't want to over vent if I don't have to as I am limited on joist space, so I like your idea of wet venting the WC with the BT drain/dry vent. I assume I will have to bump the BT drain/dry vent up to 2" if it is also going to wet vent the WC. I will try to draw up that scenario and see what you think. Thanks again!
 

Jeff H Young

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I like scenario 2 but would not go through the joists on a 45 to the tub unless I had to I avoid going through on a 45 every time.
 

DaveNewhampshire

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I like senario 2 but would not go through the joists on a 45 to the tub unless I had to I avoid going through on a 45 every time.
Thanks Jeff ... I don't have to neccassarily go on 45's so much, it just seems like it was the more direct route and less change of direction, but maybe straighter runs is what the best practice is? I am lucky in a way with the wooden i-beam joists ... the hole allowance is much greater than 2 x framing lumber. There's limitaions of course, but you could cut out most of the web in a spot if needed, as long as you leave the flanges alone and are within the size limits and distance from other holes and support area.

I am updating some floor plan scenarios per Wayne's suggestions and I will update later today (that is if my real job doesn't keep getting in the way!). Thanks again for all the help ... this forum is invaluable.
 

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That's a UPC requirement. In the IPC it's unlimited.

But the WC gets vented either via a dry vent before its drain joins any others, or by a wet vent as its drain first joins other drains. So in scenario 1 you have the WC wet vented by the lav; in scenario 2 you have it wet vented by the tub and/or shower.

The dry vented tub could wet vent the shower. But dry venting them both is fine. If you are going to dry vent them both, you might just run the tub left-right on the page to wet vent the WC drain near the closet flange. That strikes me as a little more direct.

I believe that when using a double fixture fitting, it's advisable to have a cleanout above or below it, as it can be hard to shake from one of the trap arms and reliably go down the drain, rather than across to the other lav.

Cheers, Wayne
See updated drain/vent routing scenarios. Again, please feel free to comment if you see anything that could be done better/easier or if something doesn't look like it meets IPC.

#3: BT increased to 2", and is dry vented close to BT drain, and then wet vent brought over to WC. I also extended 3 inch clean out near WC out to where I can put an access panel behind kneewall ... let me know if this is ok if I maintain proper slope.

#4: very similar to #3, but I would dry vent at vertical wall closer to WC and would dry vent the BT and wet vent the WC (I believe the vent distance to BT would be ok if I increase pipe size to 2").

#5: WC is wet vented to double fixture lav (similar to #1), BT increased to 2" and is dry vented close to drain, shower is wet vented through BT drain so it can be a simpler run.

In all scenarios, I extended the WC clean out so I can access better, let me know if this is OK (no real guidance on this in IPC).

Again, if something doesn't make sense, let me know and I can try to clarify.

plumbing scenario 3.jpg


plumbing scenario 4.jpg


plumbing scenario 5.jpg
 

wwhitney

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Just a couple quick comments:

- Any of those layouts would work.

- Are the cleanouts in the floor system going to be accessible?

Cheers, Wayne
 

DaveNewhampshire

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Just a couple quick comments:

- Any of those layouts would work.

- Are the cleanouts in the floor system going to be accessible?

Cheers, Wayne
Thanks ... I think I am leaning towards number 5. Seems the most straightforward as I don't have to do the extra dance to dry vent the shower, and it is the least amount of holes to drill in the joists.

The 3" cleanout nearest the WC would be accessible if I could extend it out to behind the kneewall and make a access panel above it in the unfinished space. The other cleanouts are not technically needed per IPC I believe, but I thought I would throw them in anyway just in case. To get to them I would have to cut into the ceiling drywall from the garage, as it is a fire coded space. Unless I put in steel fire code access panels, but that is kind of expensive and a pain for something I probably won't ever use. Do you think I should just omit the BT and shower cleanouts?

I will also have a cleanout just below the double fixture fitting, and another one at the bottom of the vertical chase just before it goes to the basement (both accessible).

Thanks for the help and advise.
 

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45s slightly better I just dont like going through joists with them
Thanks for the feedback. Is that because the hole has to be slightly larger, or it is more difficult to feed a pipe through? I have wooden i-beams so the hole requirements are pretty liberal and the web is only 1/2" thick or so versus 1 1/2 framing lumber.
 

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Thanks ... I think I am leaning towards number 5. Seems the most straightforward as I don't have to do the extra dance to dry vent the shower, and it is the least amount of holes to drill in the joists.

The 3" cleanout nearest the WC would be accessible if I could extend it out to behind the kneewall and make a access panel above it in the unfinished space. The other cleanouts are not technically needed per IPC I believe, but I thought I would throw them in anyway just in case. To get to them I would have to cut into the ceiling drywall from the garage, as it is a fire coded space. Unless I put in steel fire code access panels, but that is kind of expensive and a pain for something I probably won't ever use. Do you think I should just omit the BT and shower cleanouts?

I will also have a cleanout just below the double fixture fitting, and another one at the bottom of the vertical chase just before it goes to the basement (both accessible).

Thanks for the help and advise.
Regarding scenario #5, would it be practical and legal to stay in the joist bay by going back to the diagonal kneewall to pick up a vertical dry vent wall, doing a horizontal 180 within the joist bay and heading back to the shower? At the tub I need to stay as high to the subfloor as possible, and you cannot cut into the wooden i-beam flanges on the joists for a hole, so I would be using up valuable height needed for sloping by crossing over into the next joist bay to avoid the changes in direction.
I know it takes several 45's and/or 90's to do a 180, and it will look a little awkward, but as long as I maintain horizontal sweep and slope for the turns it seems theoretically legal. Let me know if you guys have ever done this. I am finding that venting within a joist cavity without a good vertical wall handy to be a challenge avoiding horizontal vents!

I thought about wet venting the tub from the shower, but the length would be too great for the tub, even if I up the pipe to 2".
 

wwhitney

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A U-turn solution would rank at the bottom for me, there has to be a better solution.

The OP say you have 16" I-joists, are the flanges 2x or 3x? Even if 3x, that would leave 11" of web between them. And a 2" pipe is 2-3/8" tall, so the difference is 8-5/8", which is the most a 2" pipe could fall while staying within the web. That would be enough fall to travel 34' 6" at 1/4"/foot. Is the tub drain really approaching that length?

I guess it's connecting to a horizontal 3" drain, so I should subtract 2' 3" from that travel distance to get 32" 3" maximum theoretical horizontal. And that assumes the I-joists are in a level plane; if they are out of level going against you it could be less.

Also, is that a freestanding tub? Model number? Does it have an overflow that gets connected below the floor, or is all that above the floor? Because with a underfloor waste and overflow connection, the trap couldn't be so high that the outlet could hit the top flange of a joist, I would think. But if you have only a combined waste and overflow coming through the subfloor, then I see that you could have the trap higher.

Can you pull a vent off the tub drain in the right-hand wall? I see that wall is over an I-joist, but the vent could rise at a 45 degree angle, just kissing the corner of the I-joist flange. Depending on the wall finish and possible baseboard, a 1-1/2" vent might be hidden. Or you could slightly move or fur the wall to hide it.

You also have the option to add a small wing wall on the shower, so the top side (on the page) isn't all glass, and run your vent pipe up that wall.

Cheers, Wayne
 

DaveNewhampshire

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A U-turn solution would rank at the bottom for me, there has to be a better solution.

The OP say you have 16" I-joists, are the flanges 2x or 3x? Even if 3x, that would leave 11" of web between them. And a 2" pipe is 2-3/8" tall, so the difference is 8-5/8", which is the most a 2" pipe could fall while staying within the web. That would be enough fall to travel 34' 6" at 1/4"/foot. Is the tub drain really approaching that length?

I guess it's connecting to a horizontal 3" drain, so I should subtract 2' 3" from that travel distance to get 32" 3" maximum theoretical horizontal. And that assumes the I-joists are in a level plane; if they are out of level going against you it could be less.

Also, is that a freestanding tub? Model number? Does it have an overflow that gets connected below the floor, or is all that above the floor? Because with a underfloor waste and overflow connection, the trap couldn't be so high that the outlet could hit the top flange of a joist, I would think. But if you have only a combined waste and overflow coming through the subfloor, then I see that you could have the trap higher.

Can you pull a vent off the tub drain in the right-hand wall? I see that wall is over an I-joist, but the vent could rise at a 45 degree angle, just kissing the corner of the I-joist flange. Depending on the wall finish and possible baseboard, a 1-1/2" vent might be hidden. Or you could slightly move or fur the wall to hide it.

You also have the option to add a small wing wall on the shower, so the top side (on the page) isn't all glass, and run your vent pipe up that wall.

Cheers, Wayne
Wayne ... first thanks for taking the time for such a detailed reply.

Yes, u-turn is not ideal, but I was hoping to stay in the one joist bay and save boring 2 holes in the joist to the right of the tub drain just to pick up the vertical vent in the stub wall, and losing the 1 1/2 inches in height for the joist flange. I attached a drawing scenario 6 to show what I was thinking.

I can still go with drawing 5 and go over one bay to avoid the 180 degree u-turn, I think I have just enough height, but because I will lose about 2 inches to avoid cutting the joist flange, it will be close.

I do have a 16 inch joist bay, however, where I would like to enter the main house is through the rim board just above the top plate on the house/garage wall (lower left corner of drawings), which is about 4 1/2 inches from the bottom of the flange (or 6 inches down from subfloor). See attached picture
pipe junction.jpg
. This is in a closet back wall in the main house, so I do have the option to drop it down lower into the garage space and go in through a stud, lower, however, this is just to the right of the main house/garage entry door, so it would look a little ugly, but I guess I could frame in a chase around it for aesthetics. I would prefer to stay in the ceiling/floor cavity of the garage if possible.

The tub is freestanding/claw feet, Bain Ultra 6636, and has the overflow and drain above the subfloor, so only the drain pipe coming through the bottom of the subfloor. Shower will be a 60 x 36 pan with a corner glass walls, so no alcove wall to work with unfortunately. The room
plumbing scenario 6.jpg
right wall is directly over a joist, but if I have to jump a joist bay, I have the 45 degree stub wall I can get a vertical vent in and eventually up the right wall above the bottom plate.

I think I answered your feedback questions, but if not let me know. I may do some more calculations, but if I stay close to the flange on the right joist (which Boise says you can actually cut the i-beam web right to the flange, as long as the flange is intact), I should be able to make the slope work with drawing 5.
 
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