New install -- need winterizing advice

[Joseph Skoler]

Here's a "before" pic

 

[Valveman]

I will say it again. Remove that check valve. If it is not causing a problem now, it will soon. Plus, you will never get the system to drain properly with a check valve above ground.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Bannerman]

Is is reasonable to assume that the check valve will actually allow the water to fall back down into the well (utilizing the schrader air valve)?

The original purpose for the extra check valve, Schrader valve and bleeder orifice down in the well was for causing air to be added to an non bladder tank at the start of every pump cycle. Now that you are using a bladder tank, air is no longer needed or wanted since as already stated, bursts of air from your faucets will result.

Although a bleeder orifice, Schrader valve and check valve will be normally removed when converting to a bladder tank, you were concerned with being able to drain the system to freeze proof during an extended power loss. Valveman suggested a straightforward method that would not require pulling the pump from the well, assuming there is a functioning bleeder orifice already installed.

Suggest proceeding with Cary's advice to remove the Schrader and check valves and test to confirm the exsisting bleeder orifice is working by shutting off the pump and draining the pressure tank and plumbing system. If the exsisting bleeder orifice is working, then there should be no water remaining in the line from the well when disconnecting the line before the CSV.

 

[Reach4]

Is is reasonable to assume that the check valve will actually allow the water to fall back down into the well (utilizing the schrader air valve)?

No. The check valve in/at the pump will prevent water from falling.\

This assumes there is no bleeder in the well.

 

[Joseph Skoler]

I'm not sure I fully understand.

I understand that the original purpose of the schrader valve was to add air to a non-bladder tank and that now that I have a bladder tank I definetly don't want any air in the water. Can I simply cap the schrader valve for now?

But, the bleeder orifice confuses me: Isn't it supposed to be installed down the well, below the pitless valve, which would require lifting the well pipe?

Is there a chance I already have one?

Thanks!

 

[Bannerman]

When the pump shuts off each cycle, the check valve will prevent the pressure tank from pressurizing the line back to the pump. A bleeder orifice located in the drop pipe within the well will open when there is little pressure, to allow the water in the pipe to drain back into the well. Water can not drain back unless air is permitted to enter so the Schrader valve will open when there is suction, permitting air to enter, thereby allowing the pipe between the Schrader valve and bleeder orifice to drain and become filled with air. Once the pump is reactivated, the air in the pipe will be pushed into the non bladder pressure tank, thereby regularly replacing any air that had been lost from the tank.

Since no air will now be needed for the bladder tank, removal of the check valve will keep the line back to the pump under pressure, which will force the bleeder orifice to remain closed under normal operation. When you wish to drain the system to prevent freezing, shutting down the pump and opening a faucet will drain the pressure from the system, allowung the bleeder orifice to open so the plumbing can drain back into the well while the plumbing becomes filled with air from the open faucet.

 

[Valveman]

Isn't it supposed to be installed down the well, below the pitless valve, which would require lifting the well pipe?

To drain the system below the frost line you will either need to lift the pipe/pump off the pitless every time, or lift it once, and install a bleeder, so it can drain without having to lift the pump up.

 

[Reach4]

To drain the system below the frost line you will either need to lift the pipe/pump off the pitless every time, or lift it once, and install a bleeder, so it can drain without having to lift the pump up.

Or come up with a system that lets you suck water under the floor down to the frost line.

 

[Joseph Skoler]

When the pump shuts off each cycle, the check valve will prevent the pressure tank from pressurizing the line back to the pump. A bleeder orifice located in the drop pipe within the well will open when there is little pressure, to allow the water in the pipe to drain back into the well. Water can not drain back unless air is permitted to enter so the Schrader valve will open when there is suction, permitting air to enter, thereby allowing the pipe between the Schrader valve and bleeder orifice to drain and become filled with air. Once the pump is reactivated, the air in the pipe will be pushed into the non bladder pressure tank, thereby regularly replacing any air that had been lost from the tank.

Since no air will now be needed for the bladder tank, removal of the check valve will keep the line back to the pump under pressure, which will force the bleeder orifice to remain closed under normal operation. When you wish to drain the system to prevent freezing, shutting down the pump and opening a faucet will drain the pressure from the system, allowung the bleeder orifice to open so the plumbing can drain back into the well while the plumbing becomes filled with air from the open faucet.

I got it now!

Is there a way to check if I already have a bleeder orifice without actually lifting the pipe?

 

[Joseph Skoler]

To drain the system below the frost line you will either need to lift the pipe/pump off the pitless every time, or lift it once, and install a bleeder, so it can drain without having to lift the pump up.

I understand.

I don't plan to shut it down every Winter. I just wanted an easy way to drain it for freeze protection when needed. I understand that a bleeder would do that.

Does the pressurized bladder in the pressure tank empty it completely?

Or come up with a system that lets you suck water under the floor down to the frost line.

I can't think of an easy/elegant system to do that. Putting suction/vacuum on the plumbing , I assume, would suck water up from the well.

 

[Reach4]

I can't think of an easy/elegant system to do that. Putting suction/vacuum on the plumbing , I assume, would suck water up from the well.

If you could run a smaller tube into the poly from the top, and suck, air gets sucked in around the smaller tube to replace the sucked-out water.

Suction can only draw water from about 25 to 30 ft or so down, but that is plenty to suck down to the frost line. I suspect a 4-ft tube plus whatever it takes to get to the suction source is plenty. A shop vac may be sufficient to suck on the tube. If using a shop vac, we could discuss considerations.

Similarly, if you can run considerable air flow through the tube, water could blow out past the smaller tube.