All faucets+toilets spitting+growling air

[Reach4]

The tank input and pressure switch should be close together, so the pressure switch and pressure tank feel the almost same pressure. Your change would be going the other way on that. As there is more separation with the pressure switch being closer to the incoming water, the pressure switch will tend to turn off before the pressure tank gets to the desired turn-off pressure.

If you decided to lengthen the path anyway, doing as much as you can with 1-1/4 rather than 1 inch, would minimize the drop for a given length.

That riser for the pressure gauge and pressure switch doesn't count because there is no flow, so no pressure drop. If you could move that riser over close to the new tank input, that would be good. That riser can be useful to prevent sediment from clogging the pressure switch or pressure gauge.

 

[yNotry]

Oh, I forgot you have 100 feet of poly n which case a long barb would be better.
https://www.aquascience.net/no-lead-brass-extra-long-male-adapter-1-25-mpt-x-1-barb

Thanks, got one at the plumbing supply today!

 

[Sponsor]

 

[yNotry]

You might be right and the OP might be wrong.

Reach4 is right and I am wrong! Thanks for catching that. Was focused on thread size not pipe

 

[yNotry]

Assume his existing check valve is 1-1/4". Keeping it and gutting it as a test is reversible if it exposes a leak and starts to cycle the pump with no water used.

Check valve takes 1” MIP. Sorry to mislead. You’re absolutely right on the test and reversing! The pressure dropped immediately and pump was back on in a few minutes. I put it all back together after cleaning the check valve which had green oxidation(?). The washer on valve was still soft and sealed water. What do I test next?

I think the tank is bad as well - went from Saturday precharge of 37 down to 30 psi today after shutting pump off and bleeding water+air. Plus I could here a wet gurgling noise coming out of the cross tee. I’m guessing I need to fix the well leak issue first right? That probably ‘broke’ the tank - the pressure dropped 4-5 psi below the precharge when the pump was cycling without the check valve poppet.

 

[yNotry]

The tank is bad. With a CSV you only need a 4.5 gallon size tank. That would save a lot of space and give you room to work. After replacing the tank with a PK1A kit and removing the check valve, the pump will probably come on when no one is using water. That is because there is most likely a hole in the drop pipe just above the pump. Removing the check valve will stop the air problem, but show you the leak that will also need to be fixed.

Thanks ValveMan! Double yup - leak in well and tank gone bad. I am thinking a larger tank since most use now light (flush, wash hands, couple dishes) and heavier uses (shower, wash) are 1-2 times a week. Not every day anymore. And the pump is 10 gpm. I have the space so I was thinking of tank with 10 gallon draw figuring worst case is waiting a 2-4 minutes for the pump to kick in and then steady 55 psi of the CSV. The calculator on the CSV website seems to confirm this, based on the pump running 15 times on a light day and 30 on a heavier day per electric monitor. Am I thinking about this correctly? Or am I off?

 

[yNotry]

The tank input and pressure switch should be close together, so the pressure switch and pressure tank feel the almost same pressure. Your change would be going the other way on that. As there is more separation with the pressure switch being closer to the incoming water, the pressure switch will tend to turn off before the pressure tank gets to the desired turn-off pressure.

If you decided to lengthen the path anyway, doing as much as you can with 1-1/4 rather than 1 inch, would minimize the drop for a given length.

That riser for the pressure gauge and pressure switch doesn't count because there is no flow, so no pressure drop. If you could move that riser over close to the new tank input, that would be good. That riser can be useful to prevent sediment from clogging the pressure switch or pressure gauge.

Not sure how it can be closer to tank input. It’s on the cross tee about an inch before tank input. Or do you mean having it on the other side downstream of the tank input?

 

[yNotry]

Sorry about not noticing that. I see now it is plastic and could be the source of a suction-only leak. Shaving cream can be used to detect suction leaks.

You might consider cutting the fitting in two to make it easier to remove and replace it with metal fittings (a street elbow and straight barb nipple).

No prob, appreciate the help. Did the shaving cream test before taking everything apart. No suction revealed after 30 minutes. Was able to get the plastic fitting out of black poly and then twist it out of check valve with vise grips.

 

[Reach4]

Not sure how it can be closer to tank input. It’s on the cross tee about an inch before tank input. Or do you mean having it on the other side downstream of the tank input?

Right. It had been a while since I saw your photo, and got confused.

 

[yNotry]

Right. It had been a while since I saw your photo, and got confused.

No worries, appreciate the help. Was wondering if moving the switch to the other side is better. Thoughts?

Even more pressing, how do I problem solve the leak in the well?

 

[Reach4]

Even more pressing, how do I problem solve the leak in the well?

May solve itself or be insignificant.. May be the o-ring on the pitless. May be the check valve at the bottom.

May be in the yard on the way to the pitless.

 

[yNotry]

May solve itself or be insignificant.. May be the o-ring on the pitless. May be the check valve at the bottom.

May be in the yard on the way to the pitless.

I’m confused. How does it solve itself or be insignificant when that has been the cause of the spitting and growling which continued despite having an above ground check valve. Given the leak drained the 5 gallons in a couple of minutes it would seem more likely to be in the well, no? Possibly the check valve, the o-ring or a hole that ValveMan referred to? I’d prefer to get to the bottom of this, literally, now rather than later.

 

[Reach4]

I’m confused. How does it solve itself or be insignificant when that has been the cause of the spitting and growling which continued despite having an above ground check valve.

A very small hole will admit air more readily than release water. It is possible that a leak can be so small that only air passes.

With no topside check valve, a small leak of water will keep the pipe pressurized, but the pump will turn on maybe every 4 hours until you get that leak fixed.

It would be interesting if you could have the topside check valve as a leak workaround but a valve in parallel that you could open if there is no significant leak to bypass.

Thinking about it, a bad check valve at the pump is not going to admit air, because there is no significant air to be sucked in. However it still can greatly exaggerate the effects of a tiny above-ground leak, because air likes to leak through the smallest path to fill a vacuum.

 

[yNotry]

A very small hole will admit air more readily than release water. It is possible that a leak can be so small that only air passes.

With no topside check valve, a small leak of water will keep the pipe pressurized, but the pump will turn on maybe every 4 hours until you get that leak fixed.

So given the water emptied out of the tank and pipe to well in minutes, is it likely the pitless o-ring? Which could also allow more air in than a small hole?

It would be interesting if you could have the topside check valve as a leak workaround but a valve in parallel that you could open if there is no significant leak to bypass.

Certainly would! Save a lot of work taking off and putting back on check valve.

Thinking about it, a bad check valve at the pump is not going to admit air, because there is no significant air to be sucked in. However it still can greatly exaggerate the effects of a tiny above-ground leak, because air likes to leak through the smallest path to fill a vacuum.

I had faucets open when I removed topside check valve. So air getting in during test was no problem. Air in pipes did seem to build over time, especially overnite with no water use. Also noticed the spitting and growling seemed to more consistently occur when the pump turned on and also when it turned off.