All faucets+toilets spitting+growling air

[yNotry]

Just to mention ..... as Reach4 stated ........ a heat gun is your best tool when working with barbed fittings ........ You won't believe the difference. With a little heat making the piping more malleable makes the barbed fittings much easier to remove. Just use caution not to overheat to the point of melting.
( I replaced an above ground check valve with a CSV last year )

Thanks Sarg! Appreciate the encouragement and your CSV pic. Will get a heat gun today and try to remove the barb.

 

[yNotry]

After you remove the jubilee clamps, the barb fitting will be able to turn inside the poly pipe, allowing the fitting to be unthreaded without actually removing the barb end from the poly pipe.

Thanks LLigetfa, appreciate the thoughts! I tried that. However I can’t spin the elbow fitting inside the poly pipe since it’s not in line with the check valve.

I suspect that you have a leak somewhere between the check valve and the pump which is how the air is getting into the system so removing the check valve will just expose the leak which will need to be found and fixed.

I was wondering about that. Hoping it is the check valve at the other end not fully seating per Reach4 comments. If not, what else could it be and how do I determine what it is?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[LLigetfa]

Thanks LLigetfa, appreciate the thoughts! I tried that. However I can’t spin the elbow fitting inside the poly pipe since it’s not in line with the check valve.

I was wondering about that. Hoping it is the check valve at the other end not fully seating per Reach4 comments. If not, what else could it be and how do I determine what it is?

If the lower check valve does not hold, it will create a (partial) vacuum when the column of water falls. This vacuum is what will suck in air if there is a a suction-only leak or a hole in the pipe. Plastic fittings are prone to suctions leaks when the vacuum causes atmospheric pressure exerted against the outside of it to deform. Metal fittings don't generally deform enough to create a suction-only leak. A pitless adapter O-ring could possibly fail to seal under suction.

Even if there is no suction leak, with some water, the vacuum can liberate gasses that then can cause sputtering but the volume of gasses liberated is usually less than what you describe which leads me to believe there is a true leak.

Clear evidence of a leak is that the pressure will drop with no water use as the water runs back towards the well.

 

[LLigetfa]

can’t spin the elbow fitting inside the poly pipe since it’s not in line with the check valve.

Sorry about not noticing that. I see now it is plastic and could be the source of a suction-only leak. Shaving cream can be used to detect suction leaks.

You might consider cutting the fitting in two to make it easier to remove and replace it with metal fittings (a street elbow and straight barb nipple).

 

[yNotry]

If the lower check valve does not hold, it will create a (partial) vacuum when the column of water falls. This vacuum is what will suck in air if there is a a suction-only leak or a hole in the pipe. Plastic fittings are prone to suctions leaks when the vacuum causes atmospheric pressure exerted against the outside of it to deform. Metal fittings don't generally deform enough to create a suction-only leak. A pitless adapter O-ring could possibly fail to seal under suction.

Even if there is no suction leak, with some water, the vacuum can liberate gasses that then can cause sputtering but the volume of gasses liberated is usually less than what you describe which leads me to believe there is a true leak.

Clear evidence of a leak is that the pressure will drop with no water use as the water runs back towards the well.

Thanks LLigetfa! Makes sense, appreciate the explanation and prompt response. Is that why the well tank reaches only 57, not 60 psi? How can I confirm where the leak is? How difficult is it to pull the pump up? Is that something I can do or do I need to call the plumber?

 

[LLigetfa]

A leak would not change what PSI the pump cuts off at but a check valve starting to fail could allow a pressure drop as water runs back. Multiple check valves can create water hammer that destroys check valves. It could be your check valve near the tank has a failing spring and so delays in closing.

There may be additional check valves between the pump and the tank that you may need to pull the pump to find. How hard it is to pull depends on how deep it is set and what material the drop pipe is. If it leaks back, then depending where the leak is, could make it a little lighter to lift.

 

[LLigetfa]

Oh... also, if the pressure spikes at cutoff and then drops, that can be a symptom of not enough precharge air causing the diaphragm to hit up against an internal dome limiter.

 

[yNotry]

Sorry about not noticing that. I see now it is plastic and could be the source of a suction-only leak. Shaving cream can be used to detect suction leaks.

No prob, appreciate the help. Will try the shaving cream.

You might consider cutting the fitting in two to make it easier to remove and replace it with metal fittings (a street elbow and straight barb nipple).

Can I use a brass elbow like I use for pex to NPT? Then use a straight fitting to increase to 1 1/4”? I don’t have space to go up but can go over an inch or two.

 

[LLigetfa]

No prob, appreciate the help. Will try the shaving cream.

Can I use a brass elbow like I use for pex to NPT? Then use a straight fitting to increase to 1 1/4”? I don’t have space to go up but can go over an inch or two.

I don't understand. What I spec'd was a standard threaded street elbow, male threads on the one end going into the check valve and female threads on the other to receive the barb nipple. The threaded-to-barb nipple threads into the female end of the street elbow.

 

[yNotry]

A leak would not change what PSI the pump cuts off at but a check valve starting to fail could allow a pressure drop as water runs back. Multiple check valves can create water hammer that destroys check valves. It could be your check valve near the tank has a failing spring and so delays in closing.

Thanks, good to know. I don’t see the needle on pressure gauge reaching 60 psi and dropping. Only moving steadily up to 57 then stopping. The gauge may be off though it does read 40 psi when pump turns on.

There may be additional check valves between the pump and the tank that you may need to pull the pump to find. How hard it is to pull depends on how deep it is set and what material the drop pipe is. If it leaks back, then depending where the leak is, could make it a little lighter to lift.

The well is 100 ft. With black poly pipe from what I recall when I helped a plumber replace the pump 2.5 years ago. Beside needing another hand, the tricky part seemed to be hooking/catchingthe well pipe 4+ ft below ground in order to pull up. And the lowering + resetting it.

 

[yNotry]

Oh... also, if the pressure spikes at cutoff and then drops, that can be a symptom of not enough precharge air causing the diaphragm to hit up against an internal dome limiter.

I’m not seeing a spike in pressure and the precharge seems to now be holding now since last weekend. Before it had dropped from 38 to 30 within a month after the problem started and I raised the precharge from 20 to 38 psi. I’m not sure what to make of all that. Was pleasantly surprised the problem went away. And then bumming when it came back 1.5 weeks ago.

I let a faucet slightly run over last nite to minimize the spitting + growling. Has reduced some but still spits with less growls.

 

[yNotry]

I don't understand. What I spec'd was a standard threaded street elbow, male threads on the one end going into the check valve and female threads on the other to receive the barb nipple. The threaded-to-barb nipple threads into the female end of the street elbow.

Sorry, am not up to speed on plumb speak. I need to go from 1” ID black poly to 1-1/4” ID npt. I can find a 1-1/4 fnpt to mnpt street elbow. However I can’t find a 1” barb to 1-1/4” mnpt nipple nor a 1” fnpt to 1-1/4” mnpt street elbow to make transition.

 

[LLigetfa]

They do make 1-1/4" NPT to 1" barb reducing nipples.
https://www.aquascience.net/no-lead-brass-male-adapter-1-25-mpt-x-1-barb
Worst case you could adapt the 1" to 1-1/4" with a reducing bushing and then use a standard 1" MPT to 1" barb.
https://www.aquascience.net/no-lead-brass-bushing-1-2-5-x-1
https://www.aquascience.net/no-lead-brass-male-adapter-1-mpt-x-1-barb

 

[LLigetfa]

Oh, I forgot you have 100 feet of poly n which case a long barb would be better.
https://www.aquascience.net/no-lead-brass-extra-long-male-adapter-1-25-mpt-x-1-barb

 

[Reach4]

. I need to go from 1” ID black poly to 1-1/4” ID npt.

You want a 1-1/4 MIP or FIP thread and why?

 

[LLigetfa]

You want a 1-1/4 MIP or FIP thread and why?

Assume his existing check valve is 1-1/4". Keeping it and gutting it as a test is reversible if it exposes a leak and starts to cycle the pump with no water used.

 

[Reach4]

Assume his existing check valve is 1-1/4". Keeping it and gutting it as a test is reversible if it exposes a leak and starts to cycle the pump with no water used.

I suspect that is a 1 inch thread on a 1 inch tank tee, and that the tank tee has 1 inch NPT (MIP) on the outside and 3/4 (FIP) on the inside.

A new 1-1/4 tank tee that fits a bigger tank would have 1-1/4 threads outside and 1 inch inside.

A 1 inch MIP pipe is 1.315 inch OD, and the OD of the outer part of the biggest threads would be about that.

https://www.engineersedge.com/hardware/taper-pipe-threads.htm

 

[LLigetfa]

I suspect that is a 1 inch thread on a 1 inch tank tee, and that the tank tee has 1 inch NPT (MIP) on the outside

You might be right and the OP might be wrong.

 

[Reach4]

You might be right and the OP might be wrong.

He also could be planning to connect to a CSV or a 1-1/4 tank tee in the future.

In either of those cases he could opt for a 1 inch MIP using the interior thread. I remember one tank tee suggesting to not use the 1 inch threads, or maybe it was just to be sure you did not over-tighten.

 

[Valveman]

The tank is bad. With a CSV you only need a 4.5 gallon size tank. That would save a lot of space and give you room to work. After replacing the tank with a PK1A kit and removing the check valve, the pump will probably come on when no one is using water. That is because there is most likely a hole in the drop pipe just above the pump. Removing the check valve will stop the air problem, but show you the leak that will also need to be fixed.