Could be a Vortech-like knock-off. Just speculating.
Would I benefit from a water softener?
- Thread starter EvanVanVan
- Start date
Users who are viewing this thread
Taylorjm
Active Member
Well good luck. If their description isn’t clear then you may not find it much more information from customer service since they usually only know what’s in the description and specs. You mentioned wanting to get a clack valve but like you said it has a different control panel, so you are going to get stuck with that brand. Ferguson is a good supplier for plumbing and heating though.
Sponsor
Paid Advertisement
Bannerman
Well-Known Member
The Vortech and mid-Vortech distribution technologies are developed and patented by Enpress. I have yet to become aware of off-shore distributors offering any knock-offs, not that it couldn't possibly happen.
https://www.prweb.com/releases/enpr...one_of_vortech_product_line/prweb14268518.htm says "Introduced in 2006, the Vortech® vessel, available in all size vessels from 7” to 16” diameters, features an exclusive and patented internal bottom plate distributor"
Bannerman
Well-Known Member
R4, the linked writeup, is in reference to genuine Vortech equipped tanks produced by Enpress. There was no mention of knock-offs.
I mistakenly stated 'off-shore distributors' instead of distributors supplying non-genuine Vortech knock-offs that are produced off-shore.
I suspect the non-standard manner of producing tanks as an open ended tube in which separate top and bottom dome ends are later installed after the 'vortech' plate(s) is inserted and welded to the tank interior, may create production issues for many off-shore tank producers. Since blow molded one piece media tanks are mainstream, offshore tank producers may not have yet deemed it worthwhile to attempt to copy the Vortech design.
I mistakenly stated 'off-shore distributors' instead of distributors supplying non-genuine Vortech knock-offs that are produced off-shore.
I suspect the non-standard manner of producing tanks as an open ended tube in which separate top and bottom dome ends are later installed after the 'vortech' plate(s) is inserted and welded to the tank interior, may create production issues for many off-shore tank producers. Since blow molded one piece media tanks are mainstream, offshore tank producers may not have yet deemed it worthwhile to attempt to copy the Vortech design.
EvanVanVan
New Member
I was wondering how they got the plates in there..
I only brought that up because the patent would pre-date that introduction I would guess. Patents expire. So I was only proposing a possible explanation.
EvanVanVan
New Member
Just to update the thread, I think I'm bailing on Lancester and going with a Watts PWSR145. A backflow supplier I use for work can get one for really pretty cheap (basically on par with online dealers) and I trust the Watts name (even if they probably don't actually make it).
The installation manual goes step by step very clearly through the entire start up and programming process. It looks like a Clack valve and I've read users here and elsewhere reporting the same. It specifically states "Units are shipped with media (resin & gravel), distributions tube, and control valve installed." The spec sheet sheet states 2.7 GPM backwash, good there (as far as a basket distributor). The manual advises to set the Brine Refill to Post, another good sign.
Parts are well indicated in the manual, although not necessary easily sourced online. I'm sure my Watts supplier would be able to get them in my case though. Otherwise, with enough googling I seemed to find other manual with the OEM part numbers in them to order replacements. I can't believe the level of detail the "System Components Described" section goes into either.
The only issue is that it appears to ship with 8% crosslinked resin... So I guess I'm dumping it all out when the it arrives and replacing it? I'm assuming I'm going to have to pick out all of the gravel too lol
The installation manual goes step by step very clearly through the entire start up and programming process. It looks like a Clack valve and I've read users here and elsewhere reporting the same. It specifically states "Units are shipped with media (resin & gravel), distributions tube, and control valve installed." The spec sheet sheet states 2.7 GPM backwash, good there (as far as a basket distributor). The manual advises to set the Brine Refill to Post, another good sign.
Parts are well indicated in the manual, although not necessary easily sourced online. I'm sure my Watts supplier would be able to get them in my case though. Otherwise, with enough googling I seemed to find other manual with the OEM part numbers in them to order replacements. I can't believe the level of detail the "System Components Described" section goes into either.
The only issue is that it appears to ship with 8% crosslinked resin... So I guess I'm dumping it all out when the it arrives and replacing it? I'm assuming I'm going to have to pick out all of the gravel too lol
I would wait until the resin degrades. Maybe 7 years?
Consider putting in a cartridge filter. If you put that after the softener, it will pick up any resin pieces that get backwashed out, in addition to sediment from the city pipes.
EvanVanVan
New Member
It does sound like good insurance to have a cartridge filter after the softener in case of resin failure. Any suggestions on micron size?
I'm looking at this 20" housing: https://www.watts.com/products/wate...ality-parts-accessories/filter-housings/pwhib
With this filter in 1, 5, 20 or 50 micron levels if I don't want chlorine reduction:
Or this filter 5 micron carbon block filter if I do want chlorine reduction: https://www.watts.com/products/wate...-accessories/filter-cartridges/pwcb/pwcb20ffp
The carbon block filter only has a max gpm of 4.0 so I'm leaning against it. The non-carbon 1, 5, 20, or 50 micron levels have max gpms of 15, 25, 25, or 25 respectively.
Last edited:
I use the Pentek DGD-5005-20 polypropylene spun 50-5 dual gradient cartridge with my well water. Does your proposed housing accept standard cartridges? I also use Pentek housings.
For city water, a 4.5x20 inch cartridge may be overkill. But besides a lot of capacity, they will have less backpressure than a smaller cartridge. The sumps are heavy when full of water. Some have a drain to lighten the load.
What if you get a seal failure? I keep an extra o-ring on hand.
For city water, a 4.5x20 inch cartridge may be overkill. But besides a lot of capacity, they will have less backpressure than a smaller cartridge. The sumps are heavy when full of water. Some have a drain to lighten the load.
What if you get a seal failure? I keep an extra o-ring on hand.
EvanVanVan
New Member
Why do you say it's overkill just because I have enough pressure on city water to go with a smaller housing? I'm open to suggestions, 4-1/2 x 10, 2-1/2 x 10?
I can't tell 100% if Watts "Full Flow" is just marketing speak or a proprietary filter lol I did change the filter out in the post above for a pleated filter though.
My next consideration is as I mentioned in my OP, my water meter/main is 1" but immediately reduces down to 3/4" through the 3/4" PRV to the rest of the house. I'm thinking I need to keep the/a PRV as the first thing after the meter (before the water softener), because without it I have 120+ PSI city pressure. Should I replace the PRV with a 1" model and pipe everything in 1" until after the softener/filter when it reconnects to the 3/4" pipe going into the house? Or just pipe everything (water softener, filter, bypasses, etc) in 3/4"?
Piping everything in 1" seems unnecessary if it's all going to be reduced down to 3/4" anyway, except for maybe some future proofing but I can't imagine my water needs change that drastically.
I can't tell 100% if Watts "Full Flow" is just marketing speak or a proprietary filter lol I did change the filter out in the post above for a pleated filter though.
My next consideration is as I mentioned in my OP, my water meter/main is 1" but immediately reduces down to 3/4" through the 3/4" PRV to the rest of the house. I'm thinking I need to keep the/a PRV as the first thing after the meter (before the water softener), because without it I have 120+ PSI city pressure. Should I replace the PRV with a 1" model and pipe everything in 1" until after the softener/filter when it reconnects to the 3/4" pipe going into the house? Or just pipe everything (water softener, filter, bypasses, etc) in 3/4"?
Piping everything in 1" seems unnecessary if it's all going to be reduced down to 3/4" anyway, except for maybe some future proofing but I can't imagine my water needs change that drastically.
I was thinking overkill because you could go a few years without clogging that big cartridge. Some suggest changing at least once per year, but I have not been doing it with my well water. My well water gets filtered by a backwashing filter before it hits a cartridge filter, so that probably leaves less for the cartridge to do.
A 4.5 x 10 would be easier to change, especially if the sump is at arm's length, due to weight.
Taylorjm
Active Member
Carbon block filters never worked well for me because they were so restricted and needed time to actually do anything. That's why I went with a carbon backwashing filter but I had iron and other issues on a well. Personally, if you think getting a softener will help dry itchy skin, especially in winter, I think you will be disapponted. I would be trying to find other ways to help your skin issue than changing out the water. Like you said, your water isn't that hard. I know in michigan everybody has dry itchy skin in winter because there's so much less moisture in the air. If you add a softener, then you will have to get used to the slimy feeling like you didn't rinse all the soap off feeling.
EvanVanVan
New Member
Haha damn 4-1/2 x 20 was MUCH bigger than I was expecting.. I guess I had 4-1/2 x 10 in my mind.. I'm definitely going to return this thing lol. I was only looking at GPM rates through the filter when ordering.
Yeah, we'll see.. I'm getting one to try it. The nice thing about the DIY is it's only a thousand for the softener (plus more for all the propress, etc but I want to give it a shot.) My shower head is pointing in all different directions after a couple of months and I really hate cleaning lol.
I got the Hach 5B tester and it came back at 11 gpg, so higher than I was estimating with my ppm pool kit tester.
---------------------------------------
I can order a 5 micron filter online, or 20 micron is stocked locally...If my goal is mainly to catch resin that will break down eventually, should 20 micron be enough?
Last edited:
I think 20 would be more than fine enough for that, but if something extra is being caught by the 5 micron, I would like that filtered for at least my drinking water.
I have a DGD-5005-20 polypropylene spun 50-5 dual gradient "20 gpm " filter, and that seems like a good thing. I could stop there. However I put in more than one housing. I ordered the housings before I decided to go with a backwashing filter at the front line for the water coming from my well. I think the 10 inch version of that would be good, but having the cartridges available locally is good.
I then over-do it with a PENTEK-WP1BB20P polypropylene wound WP1BB20P 1 micron. It is lasting a lot longer than I expected.
A nice thing about this decision is that you can decide to use something different than the next time.
Seek out a spare o-ring. Usually you can reuse the o-ring Lube the o-ring when you change change cartridges. I bought a tube of Molykote 111 for lightly lubing o-rings. 5.3 ounce tube is a lifetime supply.
Consider adding a boiler drain valve while you are at it. You can use that to mount a GHT pressure gauge to be able to see what pressure drop you are getting.
EvanVanVan
New Member
Ty, I have a PWDWLCV2 2-stage filter with 5 micron sediment filter and 1 micron carbon block filter at my kitchen sink for drinking water.
EvanVanVan
New Member
Just to update/finish up the thread, I finished installing the water softener today. It was straight forward enough. Also, thanks to two Watts YouTube videos on System Assembly and System Startup it was actually super easy to get up and running. It's doing a Sanitizing-manual regeneration cycle now, can't wait to try it and test it in a couple of hours.
Edit: The watts video mentions grounding straps across the plastic softener valve. It's all metal-connected except for the small section in between the softener and the filter. Is that at risk of corrosion without some kind of bonding?
Edit2: Testing my water with a Hach 5B test kit resulted in zero hardness!
Edit: The watts video mentions grounding straps across the plastic softener valve. It's all metal-connected except for the small section in between the softener and the filter. Is that at risk of corrosion without some kind of bonding?
Edit2: Testing my water with a Hach 5B test kit resulted in zero hardness!
Attachments
Last edited:
Similar threads
