Water Treatment Saga Continued - Acid Neutralizer

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Aaroninnh

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I posted recently about the low backwash rates that my Filox filter had been supplied with (3.5GPM). Well my 1.5CuFt 10x54 calcite tank is in the same boat. I have replaced the DLFC with a 6GPM, and am getting absolutely no media lift in backwash. Zero. I can watch it by shining a light. I tried a 7GPM button, and the same.

I am thinking that the years of poor backwash rates has caused it to become packed and turn into a solid brick. I have added some media over the years, about .5CF every 2 - 3 years.

It still seems to be regulating my PH well as per my testing, but it is used as my primary sediment filter and I have a lot of sediment so backwashing is important.

How should I approach this? Can the media be unpacked? Do I need to dump it out and reload? Any other ideas?
 

Bannerman

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The chart linked below, specifies the appropriate backwash range for calcium carbonate is 8-12 GPM ft2. For a 10" tank, this equates to 4.3-6.5 GPM when using 60℉ water for backwash.

1) What control valve is being used for your AN?
2) Is your well, pump and plumbing capable of delivering a continuous 7 GPM or above to the AN unit?
3) What is the temp of the incoming water?

The media could be compressed and solidified as you speculate. Whether or not you can break it into small pieces to fit through the tank opening will be the question. Perhaps clamping the tank to a post while elevated above the floor upside down may provide sufficient access space to insert a long chisel inside the tank opening to breakup the media. Alternately, it maybe simplest to purchase a new tank and media, and use your existing control valve.

https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/154-155
 

Aaroninnh

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The chart linked below, specifies the appropriate backwash range for calcium carbonate is 8-12 GPM ft2. For a 10" tank, this equates to 4.3-6.5 GPM when using 60℉ water for backwash.

1) What control valve is being used for your AN?
2) Is your well, pump and plumbing capable of delivering a continuous 7 GPM or above to the AN unit?
3) What is the temp of the incoming water?

The media could be compressed and solidified as you speculate. Whether or not you can break it into small pieces to fit through the tank opening will be the question. Perhaps clamping the tank to a post while elevated above the floor upside down may provide sufficient access space to strike a long chisel inside the tank opening to breakup the media. Alternately, it maybe simplest to purchase a new tank and media, and use your existing control valve.

https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/154-155
Thanks for the reply, Bannerman. Appreciate your wisdom.

My water temp is generally in the high 40s.

My valve is a 5600SXT. Pump and plumbing can deliver a continuous 12GPM to the valve as recently tested, but I know the valve is limited to ~7GPM.

As to service flow (unrelated to my backflow issue), does a 1.5CuFt system get any more service flow than a 1.0 assuming they are both in a 10" tank? I was originally told yes since the water is in contact with more calcite on the way down, but generally I see calcite service flow measured in sq ft of tank area, not cubic feet. If its based on sq ft, that only gives me 3.2GPM of service flow...a bit on the low side im thinking. If I am doing a new tank, do I need to plumb two in parallel?
 

Reach4

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As to service flow (unrelated to my backflow issue), does a 1.5CuFt system get any more service flow than a 1.0 assuming they are both in a 10" tank?
More service flow for the taller tank, yes.

Same backwash rate, however.
 

Bannerman

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The chart shows the recommended service flow to be 3-6 GPM ft2. For a 10" tank, that equates to 1.6 - 3.2 GPM.

The recommended service flow rate is not a mechanical limit but represents the flow rate for optimal pH correction by that quantity of media. If the recommended flow rate is exceeded, the contact time with the media will be less so the amount of pH increase will be less than optimal.

The usual tank size for 1 ft3 of media is 9" and 10" for 1.5 ft3. The chart recommendations are based on the usual media quantity for each tank diameter. Placing 1 ft3 media within a 10" tank will reduce the flow distance between the top of the media to the bottom so the amount of conditioning by that 1 ft3 could be less than 1 ft3 within a 9" tank even as the quantity is identical.

Because your backwash water temperature is cooler than 60℉, the backwash flow rate maybe reduced. For 50-59℉, the backwash rate maybe reduced by 10% which remains well within the 5600 7.0 GPM backwash capability. As you said your water temp is high 40s, you likely could drop the flow rate by 12% while still remaining at the high end of the recommended BW range.
 
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Thanks for the reply, Bannerman. Appreciate your wisdom.

My water temp is generally in the high 40s.

My valve is a 5600SXT. Pump and plumbing can deliver a continuous 12GPM to the valve as recently tested, but I know the valve is limited to ~7GPM.

As to service flow (unrelated to my backflow issue), does a 1.5CuFt system get any more service flow than a 1.0 assuming they are both in a 10" tank? I was originally told yes since the water is in contact with more calcite on the way down, but generally I see calcite service flow measured in sq ft of tank area, not cubic feet. If its based on sq ft, that only gives me 3.2GPM of service flow...a bit on the low side im thinking. If I am doing a new tank, do I need to plumb two in parallel?
3.2 is a respectable service flow. Look into the 2501 valve as a replacement.
 

Aaroninnh

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I am taking the calcite filter out of service and will try to get the calcite out. Hopefully it doesnt need a jackhammer, i'd like to avoid a new tank.

Water pro, why the recommendation on a new valve? Is 7GPM not enough to properly backwash 1.5CuFt calcite media in a 10x54 tank in your opinion?

Its a good time to work on this as I just got my new Katalox filter in service. Was my old filox tank I rebedded with Katalox. Its spiking my PH through the roof, up to 8.6, so no point in the acid neutralizer at the moment anyways...
 

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Its spiking my PH through the roof, up to 8.6, so no point in the acid neutralizer at the moment anyways...
That is a common issue with new KL media, but that will typically correct itself after some use. Ditttohead has mentioned a new media to be soon released which is expected to be as effective as KL but without the initial high pH issue.
 

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That is a common issue with new KL media, but that will typically correct itself after some use. Ditttohead has mentioned a new media to be soon released which is expected to be as effective as KL but without the initial high pH issue.

Thanks, Bannerman. I head read the posts here by dittohead and others so was expecting this. Since my water usually runs 6.2 and my calcite filter is toast, it is actually a welcome side effect for the moment...
 

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Alright guys, got all the calcite out. I had just added .5CFuFt of calcite maybe 3 months ago. That came out real easy. However, I hit a layer underneat that which was obviously the older calcite. I needed a hose sprayer on "stream" mode to loosen it inch by inch. Water came out was very brown, all caked with iron. It was pretty packed, and seemed to get denser the closer I got to the bottom of the tank.

So, now on to my next question now that the tank is cleaned out. This is a vortech tank so it didn't have any underbedding. If I am going to rebed this thing with new calcite, should I use a garnet underbed or just let the vortech do its thing?

Also, the guys that sold this to me with a 3.5GPM DLFC button originally now advertise the unit as needed a 7GPM backwash, so when I rebed it should I go with 7GPM even though my water is cold and its a vortech? I don't want to repeat this 5 years from now again, but I also don't want to wash calcite down the drain.
 

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Congrats on getting the old media out.

The Enpress Vortech full bottom plate replaces the need for gravel. Because the Vortech screen will restrict the BW flow less than gravel, the BW rate will be typically reduced by 15-20% for equal media lift compared to gravel.

Because the chart shows 35% media expansion for Calcium Carbonate and as a 10" X 54" tank has sufficient freeboard space when containing 1.5 ft3 media to allow up to 50% expansion, and because Calcite is heavy, the recommended BW rate will likely need to be substantially exceeded before media loss will occur.
 
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I am taking the calcite filter out of service and will try to get the calcite out. Hopefully it doesnt need a jackhammer, i'd like to avoid a new tank.

Water pro, why the recommendation on a new valve? Is 7GPM not enough to properly backwash 1.5CuFt calcite media in a 10x54 tank in your opinion?

Its a good time to work on this as I just got my new Katalox filter in service. Was my old filox tank I rebedded with Katalox. Its spiking my PH through the roof, up to 8.6, so no point in the acid neutralizer at the moment anyways...
it should be fine. I was just suggesting an alternative if you wanted to increase flow. Good choice on the KL. it'll need to backwash every 2 days.
 

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Alright guys, got all the calcite out. I had just added .5CFuFt of calcite maybe 3 months ago. That came out real easy. However, I hit a layer underneat that which was obviously the older calcite. I needed a hose sprayer on "stream" mode to loosen it inch by inch. Water came out was very brown, all caked with iron. It was pretty packed, and seemed to get denser the closer I got to the bottom of the tank.

So, now on to my next question now that the tank is cleaned out. This is a vortech tank so it didn't have any underbedding. If I am going to rebed this thing with new calcite, should I use a garnet underbed or just let the vortech do its thing?

Also, the guys that sold this to me with a 3.5GPM DLFC button originally now advertise the unit as needed a 7GPM backwash, so when I rebed it should I go with 7GPM even though my water is cold and its a vortech? I don't want to repeat this 5 years from now again, but I also don't want to wash calcite down the drain.
I'd go with a 5 gpm restrictor.
 

Aaroninnh

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it should be fine. I was just suggesting an alternative if you wanted to increase flow. Good choice on the KL. it'll need to backwash every 2 days.

I the KL set for 3 days right now, and 7GPM backwash rate for 15 minutes, and a 4 minute settling rinse. Looks like im getting decent lift.

My iron is .10ppm, and only 2 ppl in the house.

Can I get away with that or should I go to 2 days?


As to the Calcite, how often do you (or anyone else that wants to weigh in) think I should backwash that? I was thinking 5-7 days?
 

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I the KL set for 3 days right now, and 7GPM backwash rate for 15 minutes, and a 4 minute settling rinse. Looks like im getting decent lift.

My iron is .10ppm, and only 2 ppl in the house.

Can I get away with that or should I go to 2 days?


As to the Calcite, how often do you (or anyone else that wants to weigh in) think I should backwash that? I was thinking 5-7 days?
calcite is fine every week. 10 ppm is a lot of Fe for that KL to handle. I forget, are you injecting? or ozone?
 

Aaroninnh

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Alright guys, got a little bit of a mystery here that I need some help with.

I replaced the calcite in that filter today. Loaded the 10x54 tank up with 1.5CuFt of fresh media. Hooked it back up with a 6GPM DLFC and initiated a backwash. I am getting about 1/2" of bed lift watching while shining a light through. I then toss in a 7GPM button, very little change.

I haven't hooked a hose up to the drain yet and done the bucket trick, but my well tank has about 14Gal of drawdown at my pressure setting, and it takes 110 seconds from the time it shuts off to the time it turns back on, which back of the napkin is mighty close to 7GPM so I don't suspect a flow issue.

So what should my next steps be? Do I need more than 7GPM to lift 150lbs of calcite in a 10x54 tank?

For what its worth, the Katalox filter is the next one in the series and also has a 7GPM button, and I am getting plenty of lift out of him, and every gallon of his backwash has to flow through my calcite tank. He is a 1CuFt in a 10x44 tank.

Help!
 
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