Tiny laundry room & useless bathroom: need suggestions

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Suceress

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Oops. I missed your post, Chris. I think they didn't want to take off walls, cut holes in the roof, and/or crawl around in the attic. I think I mentioned that I'd had proper venting before but the tenants ripped out all the vents and messed up the plumbing (I have no idea why they tampered with anything). The plumber who put vents back on was in his late 70s and couldn't go crawling in to the attic and didn't want to go up onto the roof (the vent that was in the wall going through the roof was one of the few vents left in place but the tenants had detached it so nothing was tied in).

I'm thinking that we could still eliminate all of those inner walls and just have the vent tied into in the attic because that will be well above the 6" above flood level for the highest fixture.

Basically the exterior walls have to remain as-is but the bathroom walls can come down.

I'm still debating whether or not the bedroom door should be eliminated but I'm sort of thinking "no". I just don't know the most efficient use for the space.
 

Suceress

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More detailed measurements and ideas

I know it has been awhile but I've been thinking about this more lately because my bathroom project is almost finished. Also, the laundry area being a cold zone made me think of it. I have sprayed grate stuff into more spaces around the back door but its still not keeping the cold out. I think I need a cat door that keeps the cold out better-- but I still need to put up wall panels.

Most of the wires for the electrical have some slack so things can be moved a bit, but I recently discovered that one of my friends is a certified electrician (although not licensed) and he will work for food (specifically Popeye's chicken). He did the wiring in his own home and had a licensed electrician watch and confirm that it was done properly.

I went back and got more measurements and details. My old sketches were pretty bad. In the new sketches I forgot to include the wall mount light on the north wall (on the east side) of the bathroom. It is above the medicine cabinet and has an outlet on its bottom that I think only one thing can be plugged in to. I don't know if it is a 2 prong or 3 prong outlet.

I also forgot to note that there are two water supply lines for the washer (I think one for hot water and one for cold).

Here is my latest sketch
1391853_430078787124992_1049116874_n.jpg


Some notes:
*The yellow box near the 36" door on the east wall is a light switch. There are actually 2 of them stacked on top of each other. One is to the hall area and the other is to the former exterior light. The box for it is about dead center of the doorway on top of the door (I did not mark it on the diagram). The light was broken during hurricane Rita and we never replaced it.
*There is a light (I think fluorescent) that is above the medicine cabinet. I need my electrician friend to look at it because it blinks the bulb on briefly when I pull the chain, but then it just blinks back off.
*The bottoms of the windows start at about 46.5" from the floor.
*With the 15"H pedestals underneath, the washer and dryer are 53"H.
*The doors on the washer and dryer are reversible so I could switch their positions if need be.
*There is a shelf above/behind the washer and dryer but it is just barely hanging on to the wall-- I think it would fall if the washer and dryer were moved.
*I'm not quite sure where the plumbing for the existing shower is just yet. I'm assuming it may be in that side wall that I want to demolish.
*I believe the westernmost wall is load bearing but the one I want to remove is not.
*There is already somewhat of a door frame just before entering the laundry area. I'm thinking of narrowing it to 24" to use the existing bathroom door-- but I have other doors down in the barn that are wider and could be cleaned up and used instead. I would have to measure them.
*The ceiling fan is a small one that attaches to the ceiling from a rod.
*There is a toilet paper holder embedded in the east wall next to the toilet but I didn't mark it on the diagram.
*I'm not sure on the dimensions of the ventilight yet since I'm too short to reach and can't fit a ladder in there to measure. I think it is about 12"x13" or 12"x14".
*The ventilight doesn't work at all (none of the 3 switches do anything when I flip them) and I don't know if it is even hooked in to the ductwork or if it just vents into the attic.
*I have a friend who is a certified electrician. He also has experience building doorways & walls and will work for food (specifically Popeye's chicken).
*I was wondering if I could use an Air Admittance Valve for some of the fixtures to avoid having to mess with the vents, but I have read some negative things about them and I think they are not allowed in my state.

I got distracted several times while trying to type this up so I lost my train of thought.
Anyway, on with the sketches and plans.

Plan A
1554391_430583093741228_397268006_n.jpg

Basically this would use the existing floorplan and just tear out the shower, patch the walls and floors, and maybe build some sort of storage around the toilet as shown in the previous post.
Because the pipes for the old wall-mount sink came up through the floor, they would interfere with the vanity, which has a drawer. My options to rectify this:
a) Bump the vanity forward and build something around the pipes on the sides and top (the back of the vanity is open). This would make things even more cramped in the room.
b) Move the existing drain and water supplies backward into the wall but leave an access panel for the shutoffs- this would only work if not over a joist and would require changes under the house).
c) Leave the plumbing where it is, but make a cutout in the drawer and bottom of the vanity to go around the pipes. This would reduce storage space and would be sort of a pain.
The laundry room would be left alone.
Pros: It is the least expensive of the plans and doesn't require much work and should not really involve changes to the venting. This one would leave more money for cosmetic fixes-- such as building a frame around the medicine cabinet to try to match it to the vanity and maybe getting a light that doesn't suck.
Cons: Lowers house value by not having a shower and still does not solve cramped laundry situation.

Plan B
1620652_430583137074557_822438987_n.jpg

This is about the same as Plan A but would involve rotating the washer & dryer clockwise and putting them against the east wall.
Pros: Bathroom- same as Plan A. Laundry area might have more space and it would be easier to access the front of the washer & dryer. It seems it might leave enough room to have some sort of wall-mounted fold-down table or some other form of storage.
Cons: Same bathroom cons. This would still leave unused plumbing jutting out in the laundry room. I'm not certain if there would really be as much room for opening the doors on the washer and dryer since both will be restricted by walls somewhat. The window will be blocked (although it is already partially blocked now). With this plan, the floor and subfloor in the laundry room would have to be repaired. I'm not sure if the power cords would reach the existing outlet so it might need to be moved. The drain for the washer might need to be moved as well.

Plan C
1725467_430583483741189_431555244_n.jpg

This one involves a lot more work and more money. The west wall of the bathroom would be completely removed. The north wall of the bathroom would be mostly (if not entirely) removed. This would leave more room for the laundry and make it easier to reach the washer and dryer. There might be more room for shelves and possibly for things to sort laundry.
Pros: Uses existing bathroom door (could possibly even recycle parts of the frame). Uses existing plumbing from old removed utility sink for vanity. Maintains value of home by having a shower. Doofusaurus will have his own bathroom to shower in. House guests will no longer have to go through bedrooms to use the toilet. There might even be enough space for a hidden litterpan. Might be possible to just put up shower curtains on long tension rods instead of having to put up walls for shower. Might be able to maintain vent locations and have less alteration to plumbing. Affords a little more privacy for toilet area.
Cons: More expensive and will require a lot of modification to the floor and plumbing. Might require vent changes in attic if ventilight and ceiling fan are swapped. Shower is directly under wiring for ceiling fan so the light would have to be relocated. Would have to walk through the shower to get to the toilet. Might be a tight squeeze depending on how the shower is constructed. If tension rods are used they could fall down unless there is something under them. No support of someone falls. Dryer duct will have to go through the wall into the bathroom (unless I can find a way to route it through the space in the exterior wall, but I doubt it). Vanity might have to be bumped forward or cut because of position of existing pipes.
Note: See Plan F below for alternate laundry layout.

Plan D
1798735_430583540407850_294999607_n.jpg

Similar to something ChrisB proposed earlier. This involves having the toilet in the same spot as Plan C, but would move the vanity to the north wall of the new bathroom/former laundry room. For water supply I think there are two options:
a) Use hot/cold water supply that previously served shower for vanity and continue to use the laundry water supply for washer (just turn faucets to face the other direction)
b) Use the water supplies formerly for the washer for the vanity and use the former shower supplies for the washer.
I'm also trying to think of options for the sides of the shower (if we put any up at all). I was considering a sheet of plexiglass but that scratches easily and could break. Another thought would be curtains on a track from the ceiling, but that might get pricey, unless I could figure out how to MacGyver something on the cheap. I would have to move the existing water supply and probably could not use the existing drain from the vanity as I think it would have to be a different size. Anyone know?
Pros: Toilet still has some privacy. Don't have to walk through the shower to get to the toilet. Don't have to worry about the shower spraying the toilet paper. Shower could be used to spray off some laundry if need be. If ventilight is swapped with ceiling fan, it could remain in relatively the same spot. Could allow for longer shower space.
Cons: Less privacy for shower depending on what is used for barriers (assuming any barriers are even used). Might require doing something to the floor to make water go to the drain. Tension rods can't be used unless some sort of structure (albeit small support column or wall) is erected. Might be a tight squeeze to get between shower and vanity IF some sort of covering is used for shower. If not covering is used then people might have to walk on wet floor to get to the toilet. So floor would have to be non-slip but still easy to clean.
Note: See Plan F below for alternate laundry layout.

Plan E
1546082_430583570407847_1109645291_n.jpg

This one requires more changes I think. It involves moving the shower up against the east wall and bumping the toilet over to the western part of the north wall.
Pros: Toilet can be accessed easily. Don't have to walk through shower to get to toilet and floor is more likely to be dry. Vanity can use existing plumbing in southwest corner. Seems to be plenty of room to walk through the bathroom. There may even be space for some sort of storage on the south wall just east of the vanity. Duct covering could be used as a shelf.
Cons: Same issues with either having to bump out vanity or modify plumbing. Not much room to have something built around the toilet. Would have to find a way to protect the window from water. Would have to cover the dryer ductwork to keep water out. Would require the most changes in plumbing (as far as I can tell).
Note: See Plan F below for alternate laundry layout.

Continued in next post due to image number restriction
 
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Suceress

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more details continued

Plan F
1012037_430583600407844_779250211_n.jpg

Bathroom is the same as Plan E but laundry room is changed. In this version the washer and dryer are turned with their backs to the east wall. The dryer and washer can swap locations. I was thinking the washer needed to be near its original plumbing because I forgot about the hookup for the old bathroom sink. If possible I could use that.
Pros: This one could give more space to the side of the washer and dryer and more space in the hallway when walking through. Depending on which water supply is used, there might even be room for a utility sink in the northeast.
Cons: This might require more changes in electrical. Depending on whether the dryer is to the north or south, the duct might have to be longer (but I do have an 8' duct kit). The bottom portion of the window would be covered up.
The laundry layout in this plan could be used for plans C, D, and E.

An alternative for Plans C, E, and F would be to rotate the vanity clockwise with the back to the west wall and left side to the south wall. This would allow plumbing and the medicine cabinet to be moved inside of that wall instead of poking in to an exterior wall.

One more idea I just thought of:
Plan G
1625540_430667337066137_12306691_n.jpg

Similar to plan A only turning the existing bathroom into a wetroom with a floor drain and waterproofing everything.
Pros: No walls would have to be demolished. Toilet and shower would just be moved over on their respective walls. Open shower would allow move space for movement. Less expensive than many of the other options.
Cons: Everything would have to be waterproofed and would risk toilet paper getting wet unless there is some sort of curtain. Still rather cramped and not really ideal. Flooring choice might be tricky since tile is not an option. Ventilight would need to be moved if not waterproof or safe to have that close to the showerhead. Existing wall light would have to go since I don't think it is even rated for a bathroom and could not handle the moisture. Might need to install a threshold to keep water from running out of the bathroom if anything clogs. Doesn't improve laundry situation.

I was somewhat inspired by this image because of the floor drain

two-lavs-on-counter.jpg


Plan G2 would use the same bathroom layout but incorporate the laundry layout from Plan B.

Oh, here is a better picture of the Euro style vanity
tumblr_n096b5gnSU1qhfuqwo1_500.jpg


I wish I had the right attachment for my drill press to create the bullseye rosettes. I also wish I knew how to do the fluting.

This is the ceiling fan. I think the brackets are on upside down. The blades are about 15" long.

I got distracted again and forgot what else I was going to mention.

So, what do you guys think?
Which solution would be the best (but still not cost too much)?
Would making the entire thing a wet room be more expensive?
Tile is not an option so what flooring could be used?

Any other suggestions/comments?

Note: I know that I previously said that putting the washer and dryer on the west wall was not an option earlier, but after doing the measurements I realized its possible. I think the shelf got in the way. Maybe part of the issue was not much room to maneuver, but we will have help from someone who moves furniture a lot. With our current setup, my mother can't even really get to the laundry room now that she has mobility issues. Our current setup is just not working for us.
 
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Suceress

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I got extremely bored and did a very crappy rough sketch of the bathroom if I were to do Plan E or Plan F.
tumblr_n216l7ye181qhfuqwo1_500.png


I don't know if I would actually have space for that. And the door would have to swing outward to not block the light switch (unless the light switch got moved).
Please excuse my lousy perspective and scale issues. MS Paint is not the easiest medium for getting certain shapes right.
I think I would probably go with at least one linear drain for the shower. I would consider having a very thin partition between the shower and toilet. Depending on how much space either a glass wall, or a curtain, or (if there was enough room) glass brick. I'm thinking the drain would be along the north wall under the showerhead.
One thing I do wonder about though, is if switching the toilet and shower in location would mess up anything with how they tie in to the plumbing vent. If I understand correctly, the toilet needs to be the one that ties in closer to it than any other fixture? Or am I misunderstanding that?
 

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WHere the toilet connects depends on how things are vented. The order is more critical if you intend to wet-vent anything there. You can always swap the swing of the door, if that would help. You'd need a new handle and lockset (maybe, depends - you can probably just reconfigure).
 

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Plumbing Codes for DWV

WHere the toilet connects depends on how things are vented. The order is more critical if you intend to wet-vent anything there. You can always swap the swing of the door, if that would help. You'd need a new handle and lockset (maybe, depends - you can probably just reconfigure).

Thank you. I am just now seeing your reply because the forum does not send me e-mail alerts for some odd reason.

There is currently just a doorway with no door there, so I can just re-use the current bathroom door and have it swing whichever way I want. I might have it swing outward rather than in since there shouldn't be anything for it to hit when it swings out.

The plumbing vents are a whole other mess.
The vent stack that goes through the roof is right behind where the toilet currently is. I'm not sure how the rest of the fixtures tie in. I know the shower often reeks of sewer gas, but it may be because the trap dried up-- if there is even a trap under there.

This is somewhat how I suspect things are tied together now (but this is on the opposite wall of the theoretical bathroom so things would be flipped)
1958417_10151962091855168_542829431_n.jpg


I at first thought I could do something like this:
1888551_10151962091865168_945142465_n.jpg

but was told that was not right.

So I drew this, but was told that it also was not right-- but no specific reasons were given. I think I know why though. I think the air of the shower is still downstream of the toilet. Am I right?

I don't have a drawing, but I could possibly move the drain to the opposite wall but both adjacent walls are exterior walls. I could always bump the wall in (making it thicker) or add a bulkhead and add extra insulation and then have the pipes run up to the attic to merge with the vent stack-- or I could just route it under the house, up on the outside of the exterior wall, and have it go around the soffit like the largest vent stack on the side of the house.

I'm not sure if I would want the water to flow toward the shower bench or away. I considered a threshold linear drain where the shower is entered, but I think it would be unpleasant to step on-- plus it is farther away from the walls.

Am I barking up the wrong tree here?

I've been trying to sort out the current plumbing code for my area. I'm getting confused about it.
LAplumbingcode2013-commonvents.jpg
LAplumbingcode2013-fixturevents.jpg
LAplumbingcode2013-drainagesysSize1.jpg
LAplumbingcode2013-wetvents.jpg

And then I saw this online but its older.
Horizontal-Wet-Venting.gif

Just for fun, I did a mockup of an idea for the bathroom in Sims 3. The sims3 floorspace is larger than what I actually have to work with though.
 
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Suceress

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I'll have to nix the idea of a sink in the laundry room since I checked the measurements-- with the doors open the dryer is 50.625" deep and the washer is 50.6" deep. I suppose worst case scenario, we could always rinse things in the bathroom vanity or the shower and then take them to the laundry room.

Here's another question-- Does the 15" from center of the toilet to wall/obstacle apply for a doorway if the door opens outward (away from the bathroom)? If it does, then if I make the doorway 30" wide I can probably get about 2 inches on each side of the door. I could bump the toilet over and this would give me about 32" width for the shower. If the rule does not apply, I could probably move the toilet over even more (although I wouldn't want it to be too close to the doorway).
 

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So, I've been doing a LOT of thinking about this and have also been trying to learn more about DWV systems to try to better understand how things work. I'm still not quite sure if I'm getting this right and I'm getting confused about upstream and downstream and if that mostly matters when wet venting or if its still important when venting normally. I looked at some of the drawings done by other people and figured out how to do a similar style. I've also discovered Google Sketchup 2014 but it would cost almost $200 to purchase the plumbing models for it. So I've been sticking to MS Paint for some stuff.

I did a rough layout of the plumbing (this is the view facing north from inside the current laundry room, if we take away the wall)
tumblr_n62l0jj9li1qkwd9ao1_500.png


The stand pipe does not have a P-trap above the floor. I don't know if it has one underneath or if it is even connected to the rest of the DWV system. I've since learned that it needs a P-trap above the floor and the lengths of different segments above and below the P-trap are within a certain range- I have a diagram saved somewhere.

The toilet is the closest object to the vent, but it is the farthest one from the septic tank. So, that makes the toilet currently upstream of all of the other fixtures, right?

My latest drawing that is not to scale (I meant to have some length after the P-trap, but I botched the drawing)
tumblr_n670yf3FCH1qkwd9ao1_500.png


I realized that I think I can fit a 30" x 60" tub instead of trying to mess with a shower. This would allow us to fill the tub with water before major storms so that the water could be used to flush the toilet when the power goes out. It would also be less likely to overflow if clogged-- which I'm concerned might happen with a shower pan. The logistics of doing a curbless shower just caused me to ultimately rule it out.

Here is a rough line-sketch of what I know of the current layout:
tumblr_n66o5efu4s1qkwd9ao3_500.png


So, I scrapped my old ideas and have started anew. My current Plan A has the vanity where the old laundry sink was. The washer and dryer are flipped to the other side of the wall and the washing machine hooks to an improved standpipe not far from the original one. The dryer vent is moved northward along the east wall (I have some extra siding left over to cover the patched part).
tumblr_n5zm62iinN1qkwd9ao1_500.jpg

Please ignore the text and green lines. I forgot to erase some things. I might not have the toilet bumped over quite that far.
The not-to-scale rough line sketches of the plumbing:
tumblr_n66o5efu4s1qkwd9ao1_400.png

or
tumblr_n671hvh8201qkwd9ao1_400.png


One has the toilet upstream of the washing machine and the other has it downstream. I've considered finding out if its possible to get the lavatory to be upstream of the toilet but I don't know if that is necessary.

(to be continued in next post because of picture # constraints)
 

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(continued)

Plan B involves moving the washer and dryer to the east wall (which I think would give a bit more space to the hallway). The washing machine would now drain near where the old lavatory used to be. The water supply lines for the lavatory could probably serve the washing machine and I would get a proper washing machine outlet box-- which I intend to do with plan A as well).
tumblr_n5zmdhhPl21qkwd9ao1_500.jpg


Here are the line sketches:
tumblr_n66o5efu4s1qkwd9ao2_500.png

or
tumblr_n67jmkcdky1qkwd9ao1_500.png


I didn't draw the line sketch for another possibility involving putting the toilet on the south wall:
tumblr_n670yf3FCH1qkwd9ao2_500.png


I would have to create a mockup with boxes to see how it feels to walk through the space with the toilet in different spots. I don't know if I would have room for the toilet spacesaver I wanted though, but that would be ok so long as the room as better flow and function.

I want to get a vikrel or some sort of plastic (but sturdy) tub and surround and cut the surround to fit the window. This means it can't have any overly fancy raised design in the middle or it will look bad. My inspiration -- closest I could find to what I want-- is this:
tumblr_n60un5RP2c1qkwd9ao1_500.jpg

But I would want corner shelves.

If you noticed the toilet is different, I sketched up an approximation of a Toto Drake.

The door swings outward to the east because if it swings inward, it won't have the proper clearance in front of the lavatory to not hit a person standing in front of it, which I've read is a code violation. It would hit the wall to the west with the doorknob if it went in to the west. If it went in to the east I would be concerned about it somehow hitting the toilet if it managed to get a wide enough arc. Swinging out to the west I thought it might hit the wall. So I chose out to the east where it is less likely to hit something and can get a wider arc. I found that the Habitat For Humanity Restore an hour away has doorknobs for $2.

I'm thinking of using vinyl plank in the hallway and laundry room (continued on from the kitchen) to withstand moisture and hopefully not tear like vinyl sheet. I plan to use vinyl sheet in the bathroom.

So, my questions:

* Are any of my drawings feasible (to code)? If "No" to any of them, which ones and why? If yes, which one(s)?
* Which, if any, of the options do you think offers the best flow and least chance of problems?
* Where should my cleanouts be?
* What fittings should I use to hook it all up? (I know Sanitary Tees can't be used in horizontal position, so would I need wyes?)
* What wall material should I use? I know greenboard has issues with moisture and cement board is commonly used for tiling-- what about Wonderboard Lite? Or some other product that is lightweight and durable, but won't break the bank?
* What is the best way to seal around the window? Are there any specific/special techniques? (I'm guessing the sill needs to have a 1/4" slope toward the tub to make sure water doesn't stand on it)
* Would there likely be any problems with putting the plumbing for the new lavatory in the exterior wall (if I insulated properly-- although it does not get as cold here as in some other states)?
* Are there any other concerns (other than making sure there is a GFCI outlet near the vanity, getting a 50CFM vent fan in the ceiling, and reinforcing the floor to hold the weight)?

Maybe I could bump the lavatory forward just a tad and have a shelf behind it and some space to conceal the pipes-- that way I might be able to bump the medicine cabinet out so it isn't set in to the exterior wall either.

I'm hoping to eventually get some pictures of the plumbing under the house so I know what I'm up against. I'm expecting Murphy's Law to kick in.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
 
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Suceress

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So, this is still on my mind. I'm hoping that if I keep planning and fine-tuning that I will finally get the green light to go ahead on the project.

The bad news is, I took a look under the house and it was not good at all. I'm pretty sure the soil pipe doesn't even slope. Its partway buried in the ground. The existing shower has no trap and it vents through the drain of the bathroom lavatory and the lavatory has no vent. I guess that explains the sewer gas.

The toilet drain drops straight down with a tee and reduces with what I think is a fernco fitting without the metal straps.

Basically, it requires a lot of work even without remodeling. Note: except where noted, the pipes are all PVC. (the one from the shower looks like it might be dark green or black and is shaped like a T -- not a sanitary tee, someone told me it was a "pressure fitting")
Here's a photo of the fitting from the shower (there is no P-trap)
tumblr_nevlf0Nip91qkwd9ao1_500.jpg


And here is the diagram I drew based on what I saw.
tumblr_nevjlmMYuh1qkwd9ao2_500.jpg


Here is my current plan (note the euro style vanity is 4" away from the side wall because I read that was code-- if its not required, please let me know)
tumblr_nevjlmMYuh1qkwd9ao1_500.png


As you can see, I moved the toilet to the south wall because people pointed out it would be awkward to have the toilet and sink on opposing sides and have to walk through that space. Also, with the current sketch, the door can be wider.

I still chose to swing the door outward so there is no chance of it hitting a person in front of the vanity if someone forgets to lock a door. Although I may play around and see how much space there is with a door that swings inward.

I'm not decided on the location of the power outlets. The electric dryer uses a different outlet than the washer so currently there are two different outlets behind the wall that I would have to move-- but they would be moved closer to the circuit box. I will still have to add a GFCI outlet near the vanity.

The vent for the dryer will actually go straight back but I didn't want to intersect the window in the drawing. The legend didn't show up very well in the image but the yellow boxes are light switches.

I have the dryer and washer bumped over so far north because I want to put something along the south wall to fold laundry or have some place to hang stuff.

The toilet paper holder will be attached to the vanity. Towel bar for shower will be on the north wall of the bathroom (although I'm thinking of getting one of those shower rods that has a second bar to double as a towel bar). I will have some sort of caddy or small cabinet above the toilet (but it will not be low enough to interfere with opening the tank for maintenance).

The toilet will be a little over 15" from center of toilet to side of vanity and over 16" from the tub.

Something sort of like this:
tumblr_neviucT5nY1qkwd9ao1_400.jpg


The main soil pipe (that carries waste to the septic tank from east to west) is about 6' to the north of the plumbing for the vanity. I am currently trying to figure out the best way to hook it up.

Something like this with the vent up in the exterior wall?
tumblr_nevgraIXKf1qkwd9ao1_400.jpg


I would have the vent for the sink use a similar setup with a tee in the wall. The vent pipe would go up a few feet and then would travel east to connect to the toilet vent with the tee upside-down to allow the air to flow up.

I will have to add diagrams later, but here are some options:
a. The toilet and sink drains run straight north to connect to the main soil pipe with individual wyes (or combo wyes with that long sweep)
b. Instead of the toilet pipe going north, it would travel westward and merge with the pipe for the sink (with a horizontal wye) and then the merged pipe would travel north to the main soil pipe.
c. The sink drain pipe would travel east to merge with the toilet drain pipe with a wye and the merged pipe would travel to the main soil pipe.
d. (other suggestion from someone here?)

I hope this isn't confusing. Anyone have suggestions or feedback?
 
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Suceress

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A washer and dryer on pedestals might NOT be handy for a 5'-5" person to use for folding the wash.

LOL. I tend to set stuff on top of the dryer sometimes, pull it off, fold it in my hands, and then drop it in a basket at my feet. Other times I drag stuff out of the dryer in to a basket and then pick it up and fold it, setting it on top of the dryer in different piles until the basket is empty and then setting the stuff back in the basket to carry away.

I actually love the pedestals because it doesn't hurt my back as much to lean in to get the stuff out. The other person in the household who does laundry sometimes is around 6'3".

I want to have a shelf that folds down (sort of like a murphy bed) on the south wall if there is a lot of stuff to fold. Alternately, I was thinking of having a small mobile bench that I could sit on while folding stuff and drop it in to a basket to be taken wherever.

Currently the space is so cramped that the doors to the washer and dryer have to be closed for me to get through and I bump my backside in to the wall when bending down to get stuff out. The only nice thing is that I can lean against the wall a bit while folding. I plan to get a soft mat to stand on for folding if I don't end up getting some sort of seating. Granted, I could pull a folding chair in and sit in that. I can fold things on my lap.

I suppose I could also get a little step up thing to reach on top and I could practice step aerobics. :p
 

Suceress

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Ok. I've been told the last picture I posted is not to code. I think its because of the wye?
16390_10152529640125168_4224906819449446607_n.jpg


Would a 3" saniTee be better and then add some bends to make it go up?

Or would this be ok?
tumblr_nevgp8oTfg1qkwd9ao1_400.jpg
 

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You can vent a toilet with a wye. It's the only fixture you can do that on, because the bowl siphons anyway.
The bowl is then refilled after being flushed by the fill valve.
 

Suceress

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Ahh! Ok. Thank you, Terry. Would a tee be better for that application though? I'm also trying to figure out how to tie in the washing machine. Someone brought up the issue of suds backing up in to fixtures. I've heard that is mainly an issue if people are using too much soap though. I don't know if I would be opposed to suds in my toilet if it washes it out. :p But its probably not a good iea to allow that to happen.
 

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Sorry for necroing the post but I am *still* working on this. I had some setbacks-- was t-boned by someone who ran a red light & still haven't fully recovered from the injuries/damage. Some of it may be permanent, so my mobility and ability to lift and bend has been affected. A 300-year-old oak tree fell over and smashed the car port, the vehicles, took out some outdoor faucets, an dinged the roof on the porch a bit. In general life has been rather crazy-- but I will spare you from further detail.

There have been some changes: the Louisiana Plumbing Code was repealed and reverted back to IPC 2012, I've discovered that the subfloor in the area is rotted, the plumbing for the entire house is bad (tees where wyes should be, joists notched for tub drain, ABS hooked to PVC, improper slope, every single sink is S-trapped, no vents, etc). I'm going to need to fix the plumbing in the entire house, the back door (in the proposed laundry area) is rotted & the header is very crooked. So, I'm going to have to fix that and put in a new back door (which we have already purchased). I already have the door for the new bathroom down in the workshop as well. When I get to the part where it is time to do the windows, I will do a custom order of a window with tempered glass for the tub/shower area. I've already priced it out and picked the window.

I have the shower/tub and toilet picked out for the bathroom-- Sterling Advantage direct-to-stud shower/tub and Toto Drake with CEFIONTECT. I'll have a double curved shower rod so we can hang towels on it.

I'm currently working on the best layout for the plumbing. I also need to figure out if my existing pipes are 4" or 3"-- I suspect 4" since I was able to get my upper arm down in the cleanout near the septic tank to push the snake around a bend to clear a clog. I plan to re-route the kitchen sink's line (that currently runs east to west and merges with the west side bathroom groups) and run it south to merge with the main soil pipe because it is a shorter run that way.

Edit to add: I found out that the 4" from side wall rule was something that used to be in IRC before 2012 but it was removed. However, in order to give people a little more elbow room at the sink, I will be bumping the vanity over about 3" away from the wall & will put a little shelf over the gap.

This is a sketch of the house's current plumbing layout
tumblr_oh5od4BJtD1qkwd9ao1_500.png


This is an unfinished sketch of the proposed changes
tumblr_oq7fvu6DQL1qkwd9ao1_500.png

Click here to see full size.

This is a rough sketch I did of what I would like the bathroom to look like if there is enough space (I suck at proportion / perspective)
tumblr_om74jow8S71qkwd9ao2_500.png


And with not-so-easy to see notes on the direction of the pipes- the little red lines on the ends of the pipes are cleanouts-- I forgot to draw in the laundry hookup. I've also changed it to an inswing door because I went inside a bathroom the same size and found that there is enough room to open the door without hitting anything and if the door is locked, someone inside is less likely to get hit by it opening than someone on the outside of the door (if that makes sense).
tumblr_om74jow8S71qkwd9ao3_500.png


Here is a list of the parts (although I need to make some changes and all of the 3" should become 4" if it turns out it's a 4" pipe main soil pipe).
tumblr_om74jow8S71qkwd9ao4_r1_500.png

Click here to see full size image.

I'm currently trying to decide the best way to tie in the washing machine-- I have a box I can use and put in a partial wall next to the exterior door. Is there a minimum distance from which I need to tie in the washing machine drain in respect to the other fixtures? I've heard something about too much force siphoning things and or having suds come up. I have enough of a space to do the washing machine standpipe without creating a crown vent inside the small interior wall near the door, but after that, I'm not quite sure if I should just tie in to the main soil pipe.

I made something in Google Sketchup
tumblr_o1obbnI8lv1qkwd9ao6_500.png


And the options for the washing machine drain:
tumblr_oh4hp4dktc1qkwd9ao1_500.png

tumblr_oh4hp4dktc1qkwd9ao2_500.png

(just replace 3" with 4" if that turns out to be the case)

So, any suggestions?
 
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Suceress

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I putzed too long and the shower tub I wanted has been discontinued. I'll have to go with another one. I've decided not to keep the partial wall between the exterior door and the washing machine. Instead, I'll just keep about 4" of it to hold the existing light switches and have shelves of the same depth behind the washing machine and dryer. I'll have a table that can fold down against the wall when not in use that can be used to fold laundry when up. I've already found the appropriate hinges. I'm going to add an access panel to the tub/shower plumbing in the wall behind the tub (next to the dryer). Toilet and lav will be separately merged to the same soil pipe and the vents will merge 6" above the flood level. I have to replace the entire floor. I figure it should take a total of 8 sheets of plywood (graded to be used as flooring) with 4 on the lower layer and 4 on top staggered to prevent seam movement. I'll need to make it level & I'll have to fix what the idiot tenants did to the door frame. They took out the steel door, cut the door sill down so it is lower than the rest of the floor (allowed water to come in and damage the floor) and messed up the header. It is a full inch lower on one side than the other. So, I'll replace the header and make the doorway level and true. The cheap wood door the tenants put in is rotted.

My sketches don't show it, but I plan to put cabinets above the window & appliances. This will allow for more storage. I'm also thinking of having a small storage bench below the folding table.

This is the latest sketch:
tumblr_p7ub2xLZPM1qkwd9ao7_540.png
 

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Ok, I've revised it again. Someone pointed out that there will be supports and beams underneath the load-bearing interior wall. So, new solution is to use a 3"x4" closet flange with a 4"x3" closet bend and run it out from underneath the house (outside of the exterior wall just behind the toilet). From there the vent will go up and around the soffit and the drain will go down to a 3" combo wye with a cleanout on the end. I can cannibalize existing parts from a useless vent that was installed on the west side of the house. I can paint/cover the exposed PVC so it will be protected from sunlight.
Instead of running the toilet drain to meet the lav, the lav's drain will run west to east to merge with the drain for the toilet and I will temporarily use an AAV on the kitchen sink & the lav. I know it's not ideal, but it's better than having S-traps and the sinks constantly draining slow.

Here is a rough sketch/diagram. I've decided to go with 1.5" for the lav P-trap for better drainage and I will need to see what the options are to go from a 1.25" drain tail to 1.5" (I think there are some trap kits that have adapters/washers to make that work).
tumblr_p9un9mQ6sR1qkwd9ao2_r1_1280.png



Here is the most recent diagram with the fittings shown and listed
tumblr_p9y2x53dti1qkwd9ao1_r1_1280.png

One thing I am not clear on is what sort of tee to use for the washing machine drain line.
Would I need
1. A sanitary tee with a cleanout inserted in the hub?
OR
2. A DWV / test tee (no sweeps) that has a built-in cleanout?

If it is a sanitary tee, in what direction would the sweep be? I'm thinking up would make sense for a vent...

Additionally, I'm planning out how to handle the water supply lines. Since my existing cold water lines are PVC instead of CPVC, I want to remedy that. I'm thinking of converting both the PVC and CPVC to PEX. That will give me a little more wiggle room for lining things up. I will make sure to thoroughly insulate any PEX that is under the house.
tumblr_p9mph9XYRJ1qkwd9ao1_1280.png
 

Suceress

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I've decided that rather than running the washing machine's standpipe inside the wall, it will be under the shelf, up until it reaches the other side of the window. It will then have the drain & vent behind the dryer. The vent will go up & then horizontal just under some upper cabinets. I'll have a cleanout just above the level of the dryer's top. It will then go inside the wall next to an access panel, where it will tie in to the main vent & under the floor it will go at an angle to the main soil pipe.
I'm currently debating whether to use a standard tub/overflow kit type or if I should go with a direct drain tee & have the P-trap under the main tub drain with the overflow coming down to it. I think that might make more sense & would give more space for the trap arm.
I've purchased vinyl plank flooring (just in time bc it went up in price afterward) to go in the laundry room. It's 20mil wear layer & planks are 7"x48".
The end part will go under the appliances.
I'm going to have the power cord for the washing machine come up through the shelf & go over the plumbing box & plug in to the wall stub.
I will have to run new wiring for the dryer since I'm upgrading to 4 prong plug instead of sticking with the old 3 prong plug. Since the electrical box is nearby & I have a whole house kill switch, it won't require as much wire.

I know this is taking a long time, but I've had a lot of other things come up along the way.
 

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Suceress

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Sorry for necro-ing old threads. I want to update. Sadly, I have not made too much progress. Life has been pelting me with lemons so I've had to deal with many other things. One update is that we now have PEX lines instead of CPVC and PVC. The freak winter storm in February destroyed the hot water lines. They all completely ruptured all the way through under the entire house. We ran into a snag when running new pipes initially-- big fat unhappy rattlesnake that thought the pex pipes were friends but wanted us to go away. I discovered that I can no longer squeeze through certain areas under the house so my friend (who is afraid of snakes) helped me & was able to squeeze through places I couldn't. But it took awhile to convince him to come back after the snake encounter.

It turns out I had two main waterlines coming in from the well. One went directly to the water heater and the other was for cold water. That way if one line broke or needed maintenance, we could shut one or the other off without shutting off water to the entire house. But, our tenants had removed the shutoffs. When we spliced the pex in to the old pvc we added quarter turn ball valves.

One of the hose bibbs outside was connected to the main cold line but it's temporarily been disconnected. We will reconnect it soon. Now that water is off we can resume demo (but will take some time & require my friend's availability-- he's been having more trouble since having a stroke though). Once we tear down the old walls to the bathroom, fix the header, repair/replace the floor, and replace the back door, we'll be able to start the reno. New lines will be added for the relocation of the washing machine (where the old lav used to be). There's enough slack to move the existing lines from washing machine over to hook up the shower/tub. Another cold line will be run for the new toilet. So, some minor changes to the water supply part are in order.

Major revision to the DWV part is in order.

As a note, I had the wrong wall for the shower supply lines. They were in the wall I wanted to tear down & they didn't have shutoffs below so I couldn't remove the wall without breaking them. They have since been cut off.

Some changes to my previous plan:
1. I am thinking of replacing the sanitary tee & reducing fitting with a single low heel inlet 1/4 bend with the inlet in vertical position (if that is to code-- still getting opinions on that).
2. I will have to put some 4" pipe between the closet flange and the bend to clear a thick beam running along the perimeter of the house under the joists.
3. I will be stacking a couple of boards & painting/sealing them to raise the toilet about 3" to make it higher (rather than buying a taller toilet since I already have a Toto Drake waiting for installation).
4. I am planning to but the vent for the lavatory through the wall instead of using an AAV. I'm still debating whether I can run it in the wall or just go all the way through and then merge with the vent for the toilet.
5. I will probably have to use some 1/8 bends underneath the sanitary tee that goes to the lav vent to get around the beam/floor support.
6. If I angle it correctly, I should be able to tie in with a wye instead of a combo wye.
7. I'm going to have to adjust the positioning of the standpipe's plumbing a little bit so it won't interfere with the dryer vent.
8. I might put up waterproof cementboard/drywall behind the toilet and on the adjacent exterior wall for more insulation from heat/cold.
9. I will add backerboards between the studs in case we want to add grab bars later on (I'm thinking of adding a 16" grab bar with shelf on an end wall to hold stuff and to be held on to).

I've already purchased a shower & tub for the space. I believe it was the Sterling Performa. We will try to work on the DWV when the old floor is pulled up.

In terms of layout things, I am no longer going to make a medicine cabinet for the exterior wall. I will hang the mirror that came with the vanity. Instead, I will have a recessed medicine cabinet & a shelf as a shaving station across from the toilet. That way it can be in an exterior wall. There will be a small trash bin to catch the shaved hair..

With the little toilet platform, I will try to find a 4"x3" closet flange that does not have a bevel on the bottom so it will fit snug to the top board as if it's the floor (platform will be secured to the floor). I will make sure the platform is level so it will be easier to set the toilet. I now have a toilet jack that can get the toilet lined up and set it down carefully. 3dwarehouse did not have the right wallset for the Performa so I had to make the wallset from scratch.
I plan to use this type of bracket for the copper for the tub spout as it will be connected to 3/4 pex from the valve
701.jpg


I will first set the center board on blocks just to hold it in place and use hidden flange joist hangers with extra long screws to tack it in place and then fit boards into the hangers. Hangers will be used in spots where I can't screw through from the other side. I may add some nails in for good measure.
backerboards.png


This is the view of the east end of the bathroom with the custom rendered tub surround. It isn't perfect, but it was the best I could manage with my skill level. I know it looks cramped, but I've been in smaller bathrooms.
sketchupeastview1J.jpg

North side of bathroom showing the little shaving station w/ gfci outlet since it's near the shower (there will be double curved shower rod but I couldn't find one and am not good at drawing curves)
sketchupnorthviewJ.jpg


South view. I drew the mirror and vanity but I had to plug in and adjust an existing sink & faucet as I could not for the life of me figure out how to get the right curves for the shape of the euro sink.
sketchupsouthviewJ.jpg

Top view
sketchuptopviewJ.jpg

Sterling Performa left drain stock photo
SRP-ccc09209.jpg


My MSPaint sketch of the Performa with window cut (it is one of the surrounds that is allowed to be cut)
SterlingperformawithtrimsketchJ.jpg


For the showerhead I got Moen either attract or engage magnetic handheld showerhead and I'm going with Delta Lahara trim that has two handles in one hole (one for pressure and the other for temperature).
deltalaharashowertrim.png
 
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