Gtown homeowner
New Member
Good afternoon plumbing experts -
** REWARD - I will Venmo $50 to the first person who can come up with a solution that our builder and condo owners agree is best! **
I recently purchased a new condominium in Brooklyn that has an integrated refrigerator and cabinetry (Fisher & Paykel Model No. RS32A72J1). Twenty-two (22) units in our newly constructed building have the exact same setup. While one unit owner was out of town for the holidays, a spontaneous leak emerged in their kitchen and caused water damage to their unit, as well as the one below them (residents were also out of town) and into the unit two floors below (where the owners were home and discovered the leak). Serious problem! After some investigation, we learned the leak resulted from a kink/crease that had developed in the 1/4" (6mm) plastic tubing that connects the pressure limiting valve (PLV) on the front underside of the F&P refrigerator to the water connection valve recessed inside the wall behind the refrigerator. In this owner's unit, we also found that the builder "improvised" a solution behind the fridge so the plastic hose would be recessed into the wall. Setting aside the poor quality of the workmanship, or the safety issue of running the water line next to the power cord (Yikes! Code violations?), the plastic hose is not allowed a proper bend radius at the valve. That causes stress to the plastic tubing and eventually a leak. Lots of issues here for the builder to fix. And unit owners are rightfully concerned that there may be similar sub-standard carpentry/plumbing/electric hidden behind their own refrigerator wall units. There is no telling when the next plastic hose failure could happen again. The condo board wants to come up with a solution that the builder can implement for all units.
One week after the refrigerator hose leak developed in the first unit, a similar leak developed in my own unit. Fortunately I was home, and the leak started slowly. Only a small amount of water leaked onto the floor and was easily mopped up. When the plumber arrived and pulled the refrigerator, we found that the carpentry for the recessed water hookup seemed to be finished more professionally.
Like others, our refrigerator was screwed into a wall unit and hadn't been moved since its initial installation. However, the plastic tubing (that had been taped to the back of the refrigerator in our unit) had somehow become creased and developed a pinhole leak. Again, without any warning or moving of the appliance. This could be a latent defect behind other refrigerators in our building. And if a unit owner's refrigerator ever needs service, the act of pulling the appliance out of the wall unit and fitting it back into place risks damage to the tubing and eventual leaks.
The length of plastic tubing shipped with the F&P refrigerator is quite long (probably 7 or 8 feet) so the appliance can be pulled out from the wall unit for service. And the PLV hookup is located all the way in the front of refrigerator, meaning the tube has to reach even further beneath the fridge. However, the plastic tubing is prone to developing a kink/crease (and eventually a leak) because a significant length of tubing has to fit behind or underneath the refrigerator when it is pushed back against the wall and screwed into the wall unit. This certainly makes you wish for a simpler kitchen design!
Our building is in the initial year warranty period, and we are working with the builder and their plumbing subcontractor to come up with a repair and pro-active fix to reduce the risk of further water hose failures in other units. Ideally, we would like to replace the 1/4 inch plastic hose with something more robust (like braided stainless steel hose), but (1) the hose would need to be quite long (more than 6 feet) to accommodate the built-in fridge and to reach the connection point at the front of the appliance; (2) the hose would need to make a sharp bend at the wall (or a special fitting designed for the tight s pace); and (3) there is limited space to stow the coiled length of hose when the refrigerator is pushed back into the wall unit.
Questions:
1. Despite these design challenges, should owners be insisting that braided stainless steel hose be used for the repair? Something other than plastic tubing? I note that an 1/4" brass adaptor (for connecting a braided stainless hose to the PLV) is an optional part that was shipped with the refrigerator.
2. If the plastic tubing must be used, can anyone advise on a better solution for managing the length of hose/tubing stowed behind the refrigerator rather than taping it to the back of the appliance and hoping for the best? Is there some way to reinforce the plastic tubing so it won't kink or to ensure it coils properly?
3. Are there any "best practices" that professional plumbers would recommend for this type of installation?
I appreciate everyone's time and knowledge in helping our condominium come up with a solution. As mentioned above, I'm willing to pay $50 for an answer or virtual consultation that results in a solution that we decide to use. I realize that your time and professional skills/knowledge are worth much more, but the reward is really just a fun way to promote discussion. We need to solve this problem quickly, before another leak (and potential catastrophe) happens again.
Thank you so much!
(former Gtown homeowner)
** REWARD - I will Venmo $50 to the first person who can come up with a solution that our builder and condo owners agree is best! **
I recently purchased a new condominium in Brooklyn that has an integrated refrigerator and cabinetry (Fisher & Paykel Model No. RS32A72J1). Twenty-two (22) units in our newly constructed building have the exact same setup. While one unit owner was out of town for the holidays, a spontaneous leak emerged in their kitchen and caused water damage to their unit, as well as the one below them (residents were also out of town) and into the unit two floors below (where the owners were home and discovered the leak). Serious problem! After some investigation, we learned the leak resulted from a kink/crease that had developed in the 1/4" (6mm) plastic tubing that connects the pressure limiting valve (PLV) on the front underside of the F&P refrigerator to the water connection valve recessed inside the wall behind the refrigerator. In this owner's unit, we also found that the builder "improvised" a solution behind the fridge so the plastic hose would be recessed into the wall. Setting aside the poor quality of the workmanship, or the safety issue of running the water line next to the power cord (Yikes! Code violations?), the plastic hose is not allowed a proper bend radius at the valve. That causes stress to the plastic tubing and eventually a leak. Lots of issues here for the builder to fix. And unit owners are rightfully concerned that there may be similar sub-standard carpentry/plumbing/electric hidden behind their own refrigerator wall units. There is no telling when the next plastic hose failure could happen again. The condo board wants to come up with a solution that the builder can implement for all units.
One week after the refrigerator hose leak developed in the first unit, a similar leak developed in my own unit. Fortunately I was home, and the leak started slowly. Only a small amount of water leaked onto the floor and was easily mopped up. When the plumber arrived and pulled the refrigerator, we found that the carpentry for the recessed water hookup seemed to be finished more professionally.
Like others, our refrigerator was screwed into a wall unit and hadn't been moved since its initial installation. However, the plastic tubing (that had been taped to the back of the refrigerator in our unit) had somehow become creased and developed a pinhole leak. Again, without any warning or moving of the appliance. This could be a latent defect behind other refrigerators in our building. And if a unit owner's refrigerator ever needs service, the act of pulling the appliance out of the wall unit and fitting it back into place risks damage to the tubing and eventual leaks.
The length of plastic tubing shipped with the F&P refrigerator is quite long (probably 7 or 8 feet) so the appliance can be pulled out from the wall unit for service. And the PLV hookup is located all the way in the front of refrigerator, meaning the tube has to reach even further beneath the fridge. However, the plastic tubing is prone to developing a kink/crease (and eventually a leak) because a significant length of tubing has to fit behind or underneath the refrigerator when it is pushed back against the wall and screwed into the wall unit. This certainly makes you wish for a simpler kitchen design!
Our building is in the initial year warranty period, and we are working with the builder and their plumbing subcontractor to come up with a repair and pro-active fix to reduce the risk of further water hose failures in other units. Ideally, we would like to replace the 1/4 inch plastic hose with something more robust (like braided stainless steel hose), but (1) the hose would need to be quite long (more than 6 feet) to accommodate the built-in fridge and to reach the connection point at the front of the appliance; (2) the hose would need to make a sharp bend at the wall (or a special fitting designed for the tight s pace); and (3) there is limited space to stow the coiled length of hose when the refrigerator is pushed back into the wall unit.
Questions:
1. Despite these design challenges, should owners be insisting that braided stainless steel hose be used for the repair? Something other than plastic tubing? I note that an 1/4" brass adaptor (for connecting a braided stainless hose to the PLV) is an optional part that was shipped with the refrigerator.
2. If the plastic tubing must be used, can anyone advise on a better solution for managing the length of hose/tubing stowed behind the refrigerator rather than taping it to the back of the appliance and hoping for the best? Is there some way to reinforce the plastic tubing so it won't kink or to ensure it coils properly?
3. Are there any "best practices" that professional plumbers would recommend for this type of installation?
I appreciate everyone's time and knowledge in helping our condominium come up with a solution. As mentioned above, I'm willing to pay $50 for an answer or virtual consultation that results in a solution that we decide to use. I realize that your time and professional skills/knowledge are worth much more, but the reward is really just a fun way to promote discussion. We need to solve this problem quickly, before another leak (and potential catastrophe) happens again.
Thank you so much!
(former Gtown homeowner)