Replacing Fleck 5810 control valves with different model or the whole package?

[Rmk9785e]

I helped my daughter purchase an excellent combo of a filter and a softener back in 2017 following advice in this forum.
The water softener is 1" ported 2cf 5810 SXT with 10% resin in a 12 x 54 Tank. The filter is 1" ported 2cf 5810 SXT Catalytic Carbon System, also in a 12x54 tank. These have worked well for us except the periodic seal problems with these valves causing leaks and waste of a lot of water. The controller/meter valves are out of warranty and discontinued while the tank has another 3 years of warranty left and look pretty good on the outside.
Should we replace the complete systems or only replace the Fleck valve with the latest Clack valve that is currently supported and parts are available.
What would you recommend for these about 6-1/2 years old systems?
Is there any other maintenance or media replacement required on the filter and softener before installing new valves?
I couldn't find any YouTube video showing how to remove the complete valves or to figure out the correct model/part number for Clack valves for each. Any thoughts?
While these systems have worked well, local water softener businesses are only interested in support or maintenance (for a fee of course) of systems they sell. Are any of the commonly available systems worth consideration?

 

[Diyh2o]

Not an expert, but my Fleck 9000 went about 19 years, just replaced with a Fleck 9100SXT. The single tank version is the 5600SXT, have not heard bad things and easy to service. I believe the equivalent of what you have is the 5800.

If on municipal water, chlorine can take the seals out sooner. Not sure what is causing the ongoing issues you experienced.

I stayed with Fleck due to familiarity, but was considering Clack. Both solid choices.

Hopefully someone chimes in on that specific valve, maybe there is a reason it was discontinued.

The cost of the valve is probably not much more than a new system if you need to change out the resin. It was cheaper for me to buy new with a warranty than to rebuild by the time I got all the parts and resin.

Hope that helps.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Rmk9785e]

Not an expert, but my Fleck 9000 went about 19 years, just replaced with a Fleck 9100SXT. The single tank version is the 5600SXT, have not heard bad things and easy to service. I believe the equivalent of what you have is the 5800.

If on municipal water, chlorine can take the seals out sooner. Not sure what is causing the ongoing issues you experienced.

I stayed with Fleck due to familiarity, but was considering Clack. Both solid choices.

Hopefully someone chimes in on that specific valve, maybe there is a reason it was discontinued.

The cost of the valve is probably not much more than a new system if you need to change out the resin. It was cheaper for me to buy new with a warranty than to rebuild by the time I got all the parts and resin.

Hope that helps.

Thank you. I've read that Clack valves are less expensive to maintain. Have no experience with it.
Which new system did you end up buying that had local maintenance support available?

 

[Reach4]

Thank you. I've read that Clack valves are less expensive to maintain. Have no experience with it.
Which new system did you end up buying that had local maintenance support available?

That is a weird thing to have read.

When you consider buying a system, see if a service manual for the valve is available. If no, that would be a red flag for me.

 

[Rmk9785e]

That is a weird thing to have read.

When you consider buying a system, see if a service manual for the valve is available. If no, that would be a red flag for me.

That's a good point. The problem with the Internet is that too many opinions are floating around with no validation for their accuracy.
I personally like to maintain my own systems however I don't live close to my daughter who prefers to have local pros be available for any maintenance.
Which commercially available system would you recommend to replace this 7 year old combination of 2cf 5810 SXT Catalytic Carbon System and 2cf 5810 SXT Softener with 10% resin, both in 12 x 54 tanks?
With our experience with Fleck 5810s, I wouldn’t want a system with these valves. Which model of valves is more reliable?

 

[Diyh2o]

Thank you. I've read that Clack valves are less expensive to maintain. Have no experience with it.
Which new system did you end up buying that had local maintenance support available?

As long as you go fleck or clack, might be others, can’t imagine not being able to find someone to support or service it. Mine is a fleck system, down to the brine tank. Purchased online and that is another story. You can save quite a bit, but service is on you. Over the phone if you are lucky.

Purchasing local, some places would not sell me the gear. Plumbing supply house - some sell softeners, others claim that water conditioning is its own specialty.

From what I’ve seen Clack rebuild could be faster, but I’ve not seen a twin demand from them, just a single. Both are solid products with substantial parts/service availability. I know I can parts local if needed and pick up the phone if I chose to pay for service.

 

[Rmk9785e]

Thank you all for your help. I've concluded that it is more cost effective to replace these systems rather than trying to fix them. There's not a whole lot of this expertise among local plumbers for these systems and even if they did, the labor cost doesn't justify repairs.

 

[Reach4]

I presume you meant The filter is
12" x 2cf 5810 SXT Catalytic Carbon System.

The Fleck 2510 could be of interest. It has been around for a long time. It can be had with a mechanical timer or SXT. Carbon backwashed on a timed basis.

The Fleck 5800SXT is another one to consider. The 5600SXT is only good for backwash at maybe 7 gpm. I am not sure what the optimum carbon backwash rate. But the 5800SXT can backwash at a higher level. It uses slower piston action rather than the faster 5810SXT piston movement.

How often do you backwash? When you change seals, do you lube with silicone release compound?

 

[Rmk9785e]

I presume you meant The filter is
12" x 2cf 5810 SXT Catalytic Carbon System.

The Fleck 2510 could be of interest. It has been around for a long time. It can be had with a mechanical timer or SXT. Carbon backwashed on a timed basis.

The Fleck 5800SXT is another one to consider. The 5600SXT is only good for backwash at maybe 7 gpm. I am not sure what the optimum carbon backwash rate. But the 5800SXT can backwash at a higher level. It uses slower piston action rather than the faster 5810SXT piston movement.

How often do you backwash? When you change seals, do you lube with silicone release compound?

Yes, we have been using the correct lube per instructions. Our softener 5810SXT settings are:

DF	GAL
VT	5810
RF	dF1b
CT	Fd
C	48
H	28
RS	cr
DO	28
RT	2:00
BW	10
BD	60
RR	10
BF	21
FM	t1.2
RE	Off
VU	Off

I don't have the settings for the filter but the backwash is every 14 days if I remember correctly.
How do we figure out the correct part number of the 5800SXT to order? Even if we can get a new valve, isn't the Catalytic Carbon media also due for replacement after 6-1/2 years of use? If we add in the cost of new valve, 2 Cu Ft media and labor, it comes close to the price of a new system.

 

[Reach4]

I agree, a new system could be the better deal, since you would be looking at replacing the coconut shell GAC soon enough. It is the carbon's job to remove chlorine and possible organic chemicals before the softener. Chlorine makes softener resin not last as long.

Looking at the service manual, I see the piston is differerent for a filter than for a softener. You could keep the old valve

I presumed you are on city water. If not, say so. Your Hardness setting on the softener is 28, which seems high for city water. If you are on a well, usually there would be no chlorine to remove.

You could salvage the old valve's seals for the softener, but not the piston. I think you could keep the board as a spare also, but I think the likelihood of the board on the softener failing is very low.

If you got a new valve, the DLFC would be the critical value. I am thinking you would want about 8 GPM of backwash for carbon in a 12 inch tank. But we can discuss that. Do you know what DLFC your current filter has?

If you have an unpainted tank, you can check that you get the desired bed expansion during backwash, by shining a light thru.

 

[Rmk9785e]

I agree, a new system could be the better deal, since you would be looking at replacing the coconut shell GAC soon enough. It is the carbon's job to remove chlorine and possible organic chemicals before the softener. Chlorine makes softener resin not last as long.

Looking at the service manual, I see the piston is differerent for a filter than for a softener. You could keep the old valve

I presumed you are on city water. If not, say so. Your Hardness setting on the softener is 28, which seems high for city water. If you are on a well, usually there would be no chlorine to remove.

You could salvage the old valve's seals for the softener, but not the piston. I think you could keep the board as a spare also, but I think the likelihood of the board on the softener failing is very low.

If you got a new valve, the DLFC would be the critical value. I am thinking you would want about 8 GPM of backwash for carbon in a 12 inch tank. But we can discuss that. Do you know what DLFC your current filter has?

If you have an unpainted tank, you can check that you get the desired bed expansion during backwash, by shining a light thru.

Yes, we are on city water. Attached is the city's most recent water quality report. It says on page 8:
"Our water ranges from 100mg/L to 450mg/L (6 grains per gallon to 26 gpg) depending on the source of the water." I think our test results were close to the high end.
Our filter is equipped with Catalytic Carbon. Not sure if that affects the timeline to replace it. I've read some site suggesting a mix of the two to remove multiple contaminants.
Our tanks are 12"x54" but they are painted so can't see the bed expansion. The 1" in my original post was the port size connected by Stainless Steel Flex Lines. No idea what DLFC is of the current filter or how to find it.
Frankly, I'm not clear what to do with the filter. If both the valve and media have to be replaced then combined with labor, the cost gets close to buying a new system.

 

[Reach4]

If you do buy new, I would opt for unpainted if this will go indoors. Outdoors, things need protection from UV, but that could be with a cover.

Good point on the distinction between GAC and catalytic carbon. I would get some low-range chlorine test strips to check residual chlorine/chloromine. I suspect the strips should test for total chlorine vs free chlorine, but I don't see that discussed.

If the chloramine/chlorine is being removed, the carbon is still good.

For low range testing, LAMOTTE 2963LR-G .25 ppm to 10 ppm chlorine
test sensitivity, looks good. 2979 is 0 to 5 ppm chlorine. (zoro)

Total Chlorine Test Strips

The Insta-TEST® Total Chlorine test strips are a convenient way to test water for Total Chlorine. Range and sensitivity is 0, 0.5, 1, 3, 5 ppm.

lamotte.com

https://www.zoro.com/search?q=LAMOTTE chlorine (many)

Your local pool store might have a suitable kit or test the sample you bring in. Ideally you will have a sample spigot (drain valve) between tanks.

 

[Rmk9785e]

If you do buy new, I would opt for unpainted if this will go indoors. Outdoors, things need protection from UV, but that could be with a cover.

Good point on the distinction between GAC and catalytic carbon. I would get some low-range chlorine test strips to check residual chlorine/chloromine. I suspect the strips should test for total chlorine vs free chlorine, but I don't see that discussed.

If the chloramine/chlorine is being removed, the carbon is still good.

For low range testing, LAMOTTE 2963LR-G .25 ppm to 10 ppm chlorine
test sensitivity, looks good. 2979 is 0 to 5 ppm chlorine. (zoro)

Total Chlorine Test Strips

The Insta-TEST® Total Chlorine test strips are a convenient way to test water for Total Chlorine. Range and sensitivity is 0, 0.5, 1, 3, 5 ppm.

lamotte.com

https://www.zoro.com/search?q=LAMOTTE chlorine (many)

Your local pool store might have a suitable kit or test the sample you bring in. Ideally you will have a sample spigot (drain valve) between tanks.

Thank you for a good way to check if the carbon media is still functioning. I have a pool test kit at home and will do the testing. If it’s good then I’ll try to buy 5800SXT valve