Need help treating iron/IRB/SRB

[brugroffil]

Hi all,


Looking for some guidance on the proper well water treatment system. Reading through all sorts of documentation online and many older threads in this forum has left me more confused than confident in the correct approach.


We have sulfur smells in all of our water, including raw, though it’s more prominent in the hot water. We have brown slime inside of our toilet tanks. I’ve replaced a shower cartridge recently, and it was coated internally in more brown slime. Everything white gets stained brown over time--shower pan, kids’ bath toys, clothes washer, etc. The water out of the tap is usually pretty clear but sometimes has a very slight tint to it. There's no oily sheen.


Here’s our latest test results from NTL as of January (listed everything that was above minimum detection level). This is raw water from an outside spigot. Values are all pretty similar to a test we did back in 2017.


Calcium 114.6

Copper 0.016

Iron 0.835

Lithium 0.026

Magnesium 50.44

Maganese 0.010

Potassium 4.6

Silica 10.7

Sodium 27

Strontium 1.264

Zinc 0.037

Alkalinity 280

Hardness 490

pH 7.2

TDS 670

Turbidity 11

Fluoride 0.8

Sulfate 290



I also did a couple of BART tests for IRB, one on treated, one on raw water and one on treated water for SRB. Treated water came back positive for IRB on day 6, SRB on day 7. Raw water IRB started just showing on day 5 as well.


When we first moved in a few years ago, we had a few water softener companies come around and they all also tested low iron in their little test kits. Most were surprised given the level of brown staining and slime in the tanks, but who knows how knowledgeable they really were. Ultimately, we’ve stuck with the existing system that was in place for now after their tech serviced/cleaned it. It’s based on an Autotrol 255 valve, for what it's worth. 70k grain if I remember correctly.


I just don’t know what the right approach is here. Iron filter? H2O2 or chlorine with a carbon filter? Ozone injection?

Any guidance would be appreciated!

 

[ditttohead]

It really depends on how good you want the water and how much you want to spend. A proper treatment method may be as simple as a chlorine injection system and small contact tank. Followed by a carbon tank for removing chlorine and some of the sediment, then too your existing softener might be a simple solution. Regardless, you need to do a thorough well and plumbing sanitization.

 

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[Reach4]

I would sanitize the well and plumbing. One thought is sanitize after doing plumbing work. https://terrylove.com/forums/index....izing-extra-attention-to-4-inch-casing.65845/ is my sanitizing writeup. If you follow part of my suggestions, you will need some stuff, which you will probably want to order. Also, February is not a good month to do outdoor wet stuff in most of Illinois.

That by itself will make some improvement, but further treatment is usually best.

How long will it knock down IRB and SRB? I don't know. I think it could be a good amount of time.

I have a Ceranode powered anode to protect the WH without feeding SRB. I also have a backwashing H2S+iron filter. Not sure what all does it, but mine is good. My iron is around half of yours.

 

[ditttohead]

I have been very impressed with the powered anode rods... when I heard about them years ago I was thinking they were a bit gimicky, but after doing extensive research on the way anodes work, these things are quite impressive.

 

[brugroffil]

We're looking to treat the staining more than anything. I currently dump some h2o2 into the WH every two months or so and that takes care of the odor.


We happen to be having our cracked well seal replaced tomorrow including extending the casing to get to the proper 12" minimum above grade--currently it's almost flush to the ground. So since we're cracking it open, the well guy is going to help sanitize while he's here anyway. I'll be responsible for flushing later after getting it into an the pipes and letting it sit. Our county has a guide he'll be following that isn't quite as thorough as yours (no vinegar for pH) but aligns pretty well.

Does it make sense to see how things shake out on the iron/sulfur side of things for a bit? We've been putting off a more permanent fix for years now, which has also put off things like replacing the aging washer and the 15+yo water heater. We're willing to spend a bit if that's what it takes to take care of the issue correctly, but we're not chasing after distilled quality water or anything.

Thanks again.

 

[ditttohead]

If you have a reasonable budget, then chlorine injection and a small contact tank followed by a carbon tank and a softner would likely give you some fairly decent water.

 

[Skyjumper]

the others here are probably tired of hearing my spiel on this, but I have experience with your situation. I should probably just write it up like Reach did and link to it. here's the abridged version.
Your softener is iron fouled and the valve is full of sludge. You will need to replace the resin and dismantle & clean/rebuild the valve. If you don't believe it go ahead and take the valve off the tank and look inside. It might be easier/better to get a new softener. Clack WS1 is the best valve for iron bearing water. Thats what I have and I highly recommend it. Easy to service it yourself, and you will need to do so.
Once you get the softener straightened out you will need to clean the resin with every regeneration to remove the iron. That means adding resin cleaners to the brine tank. this is easy to do. there are several methods & products to do this. This will need to be done in perpetuity to keep the iron and IRB away.
By cleaning the iron from the softener you will eliminate the IRB in it and downstream. but you'll have to flush & clean the years worth of crud from your hot water tank, or just replace it. same for your toilets.
You want to do all this after shocking the well.
I don't recommend iron filters unless you have the time, money, and patience to maintain one, and with only 0.8ppm Fe you really don't need it. If you are not looking to take on more equipment & upkeep then just stick with the water softener & keep it clean.

 

[brugroffil]

So we did our shock chlorination Friday, began the flush out yesterday morning via outside hose. Ran that until it was clean, came inside, ran hot and cold until they were both clean. Put the softener back in service, regenerated, and then began using some of the water. Hot water was very salty, and then we noticed a chlorine smell in both hot and cold.

Shut everything down, drained the water heater, ran the outside hose for hours. Refilled the water heater, ran the lines until everything was clear. Tested again at the kitchen faucet this morning, everything was clear of chlorine.

Then after some more water usage we're getting strong chlorine in both hot and cold again???

What am I missing here? Where can the reservoir of chlorine be??????

 

[Skyjumper]

Then after some more water usage we're getting strong chlorine in both hot and cold again???

What am I missing here? Where can the reservoir of chlorine be??????

yep. same thing I experienced. it clears out but then returns after the well is allowed to sit for a while... there is still chlorine in the bottom of the well you can't pump it all out at once. when the pump shuts off the water in the bottom mixes with the water up by the pump, and then you get chlorine again. for me it took a full week for the chlorine to totally clear out. I ran the hose every morning for 15 minutes. and then a few more times during the day for 10 mins or so.

 

[Reach4]

So we did our shock chlorination Friday, began the flush out yesterday morning via outside hose. Ran that until it was clean, came inside, ran hot and cold until they were both clean. Put the softener back in service, regenerated, and then began using some of the water. Hot water was very salty, and then we noticed a chlorine smell in both hot and cold.

Shut everything down, drained the water heater, ran the outside hose for hours. Refilled the water heater, ran the lines until everything was clear. Tested again at the kitchen faucet this morning, everything was clear of chlorine.

Then after some more water usage we're getting strong chlorine in both hot and cold again???

What am I missing here? Where can the reservoir of chlorine be??????

yep. same thing I experienced. it clears out but then returns after the well is allowed to sit for a while... there is still chlorine in the bottom of the well you can't pump it all out at once. when the pump shuts off the water in the bottom mixes with the water up by the pump, and then you get chlorine again. for me it took a full week for the chlorine to totally clear out. I ran the hose every morning for 15 minutes. and then a few more times during the day for 10 mins or so.

In a bottom feeding well, the reserve could be above the pump. I think you want to do some recirculation plus dumping water to pull water from the bottom as well as washing chlorine down from above the pump. So maybe sequence this. Maybe do recirc and dumping simultainously.

Not a slow process I think.

Did you use pellets, or only liquid?

I think the vinegar lets the chlorine be more effective, and I suspect a vinegar+bleach might clear sooner than bleach which is more stable at higher pH. Just trying to think it through. I have limited experience.

When trying to clear the chlorine, dumping the WH water completely has to help.

 

[brugroffil]

It took a few more days during probably the worst possible time to be doing outside work (0-10F, 2+ feet of snow on the ground), but we did eventually get all the chlorine flushed out of our system. We had our current water softener company come by and service the unit last week, and it was still working well in softening the water and removing about 1ppm of iron.

I'm assuming the IRB and SRB will come back over time, and I don't think I want to mess with the headaches of shock chlorinating the well on a regular basis. To help me understand the process better, what's the underlying reason for going with a chlorination system over an H2O2 system for oxidizing the bacteria? What are the potential additional benefits of chlorination vs. H2O2?

 

[ditttohead]

The topic is fairly complex but I will do my best to keep this short and simple.

Chlorine is effective at controlling/killing bacteria at very low levels, .5-4 ppm is typically effective at keeping a system maintained. Removal of chlorine is typically preferred as chlorine and the byproducts are not typically considered desirable. Chlorine reduction is fairly simple and inexpensive.

H202 requires much higher levels to effectively kill/control bacterial issues and the byproduct is oxygen which may make the bacterial problem worse if you do not inject high enough levels. The EPA recommends 25-50 PPM residual, considering the cost, this can make H2o2 very expensive.

This topic is far more complex than what I can put into a public forum, but this should help.

 

[Water Pro]

It took a few more days during probably the worst possible time to be doing outside work (0-10F, 2+ feet of snow on the ground), but we did eventually get all the chlorine flushed out of our system. We had our current water softener company come by and service the unit last week, and it was still working well in softening the water and removing about 1ppm of iron.

I'm assuming the IRB and SRB will come back over time, and I don't think I want to mess with the headaches of shock chlorinating the well on a regular basis. To help me understand the process better, what's the underlying reason for going with a chlorination system over an H2O2 system for oxidizing the bacteria? What are the potential additional benefits of chlorination vs. H2O2?

consider an aio3. With TDS at 670 you could use an RO as well.

 

[brugroffil]

What are the potential issues with AIO3 given the moderate irb/srb?

 

[Texas Water Boy]

Why doesn't more people use an ozone generator to combat bacterial iron?

 

[Water Pro]

What are the potential issues with AIO3 given the moderate irb/srb?

not much. with your combined Fe/Mg it will be a fine long term solution. minor maintenance is required yearly.