Fleck SXT Setting Recommendation & Education?

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SEMIJim

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Hi All,

We recently had our water softener replaced. The plumber set up the Fleck SXT. As with the old softener, it seems to me to be cycling far more frequently than it should for two adults.

Our water is from a well. The Hach water hardness test kit says the hardness is 18 grains/gal.

Resin tank: 48,000 grains (which appears to be equivalent to 1.5 cu/ft?)
Brine tank: ±four (4) cubic feet

Brine tank connection on the resin tank reads:

.50 GPM
1.5 LB
SALT/MIN.

The hose fitting on the resin tank for the hose that goes to the sump well, reads:

INJECTOR 1
DRAIN FLOW 2.4 GPM

Here are the Fleck SXT settings the plumber configured:

DF: GAL
VT: dF 1b
CT: Fd
NT: 1
C: 37
H: 50
RS: rc
RC: 150
DO: OFF
RT: 2:00
BW: 10
BD: 60
RR: 10
BF: 10
FM: t0.7

That results in 590 gal. between cycles. We use ±100 gal./day, depending.

Right now the brine tank is about half full of salt. I can see water just below the surface of the salt if I move some aside.

At first I thought what the plumber had done was way out-of-whack,

I started plugging in accurate numbers and ended-up with values like nearly 1900 gallons between cycles. I never got so far as calculating the proper BF. In researching that I read about the advantages of cycling less, more often. So I backed-out my changes and decided to ask here.

About that BF calculation: this page says it's
T = Brine Tank Refill Time (minutes)
X = Brine Line Flow Control Rating (gpm)
Y = Salt Dosage sometimes called Regeneration Level (lbs/cuft)
Z = Amount of Resin in Softener (cuft)

In order to set the time you need to know the concentration of saturated brine

C = 2.6 lbs/gallon = Concentration of Saturated Brine

So the equation is:

T = (Y * Z)/(X * C)
No idea how to arrive at C or Y, and that page explains it not, but, using their numbers for the two, I end up with

(12 * 1.5)/(0.5 * 2.6) = 14

14 minutes * 0.5 gal/min = 7 gal.

7 gal. * 3 lbs/gal = 21 lbs. of salt.

All of this implies to me that if I set everything up to what things really are, the softener would cycle about once every 16 days or so, and use 21 lbs of salt per cycle. It looks like the brine tanks will hold about 120 lbs salt to be about 1/3 to 3/4 full, so... this would be sub-optimal?

FWIW: Not my doing, nor my choosing, but there's nothing I can do about it. The softener dumps into the sump well which dumps into the septic tank :(

Lastly: We have a "fair" amount (?) of iron in the water. (Rust staining anywhere water is allowed to sit [e.g.: toilet tanks] or which is regularly exposed to it [house siding hit by in-ground sprinklers].) I mention this because one programming tutorial says you should set a DO of 5-7 if there's "a lot" of rust in the water. ("A lot" is undefined.)

Thanks in advance for any guidance!

Jim
 

Reach4

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Fleck SXT
There is more than one Fleck SXT. I suspect you have Fleck 5600SXT, since that one often comes with a 0.5 gpm BLFC.

Here is how I would set that up for now. The RC number is in gallons. You should get a Hach 5B test kit, and check both the raw hardness (better to use 50% distilled and 50% raw water, and double the drops) and the residual hardness when the softener is about to regen. So the H may need adjusting, depending on what you find.

This setup method is easy to follow with the RC number being in gallons.

This will use 12 pounds of salt per regen rather than 15 pounds. The settings are not very different than what your plumber set up, except for H.

You need to get your water tested and the iron number. A backwashing iron filter before the softener would be really great. You will have to clean the system of iron periodically. You should use a wick acid dispenser ( a Res-Up or ResCare feeder) in the brine tank and/or iron-handling salt.

System info (not programmed)
salt lb/cuft = 8 ; A choice ( efficiency vs capacity)
BLFC = 0.5 ; Brine Refill rate GPM
cubic ft resin = 1.5 ; ft3 resin = (nominal grains)/32,000
Raw hardness = 25 ; including any compensation
People = 2 ; gallons affects reserve calc
Estimated gal/day = 120 ; 60 gal per person typical calc
Estimated days/regen = 12.0 ; Computed days ignoring reserve

Fleck 5600SXT Settings:
DF = Gal ; Units
VT = dF1b ; Downflw/Upflw, Single Backwash
CT = Fd ; Meter Delayed regen trigger
NT = 1 ; Number of tanks
C = 36.0 ; capacity in 1000 grains
H = 25 ; Hardness-- guessing 1 ppm iron.
RS = rc ; rc says use gallons vs percent
RC = 120 ; Reserve capacity gallons
DO = 7 ; Day Override (28 if no iron)
RT = 2:00 ; Regen time (default 2 AM)
BW = 5 ; Backwash (minutes)
Bd = 60 ; Brine draw minutes
RR = 5 ; Rapid Rinse minutes
BF = 8 ; Brine fill minutes
FM = usually t0.7 ; flow meter, make note of what is there
 
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SEMIJim

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There is more than one Fleck SXT. I suspect you have Fleck 5600SXT, since that one often comes with a 0.5 gpm BLFC.
Yes, I believe it's a Fleck 5600 SXT. This is what it looks like:

Fleck_SXT.JPG


You should get a Hach 5B test kit, and check both the raw hardness
As noted in my OP: I have a Hach 5B test kit. The raw water tested as 18 grains/gal.

The first test I did I "ran past" the point I should have by going two drops at a time, ending-up at 20. The second time I did 10, swirled vigorously, did another 5, swirled vigorously, then one-at-a-time, swirling thoroughly between each. Turned purple at 17, blue at 18.

(better to use 50% distilled and 50% raw water, and double the drops)
Hmmm... Put a 50% mark on the vial, I guess?

and the residual hardness when the softener is about to regen.
I thought about doing that.

You should use a wick acid dispenser ( a Res-Up or ResCare feeder) in the brine tank and/or iron-handling salt.
I currently add one bag of Red-Out Dura-Cube for every two bags of regular Dura-Cube, upon recommendation, years ago, from our "well guy" at the time.

System info (not programmed)
salt lb/cuft = 8 ; A choice ( efficiency vs capacity)
...
Raw hardness = 25 ; including any compensation
Could you explain where that "salt lb/cuft = 8" number comes from? Thanks!

Our raw hardness is 18.

Fleck 5600SXT Settings:
...
DO = 7 ; Day Override (28 if no iron)
...
FM = usually t0.7 ; flow meter, make note of what is there
We definitely have iron, and no mistake.

Yeah, the FM is currently set to t0.7. I presume that was correct as-installed.

Thanks for the help!

Jim
 

Reach4

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Hmmm... Put a 50% mark on the vial, I guess?
No. I got focused on the H=50 that the plumber put in. He was probably a lot more pessimistic on the iron than I was.

Could you explain where that "salt lb/cuft = 8" number comes from?
It comes operationally from BF=8 (because you have 1.5 cuft of resin), but to carry that out further:

To get 8 pounds per cubic ft, multiply by 1.5 cubic ft. That is 12. For each gallon of water added to the brine tank, you dissolve 3 pounds of salt. So you need 4 gallons of water each regen. BLFC is 0.5, so to get 4 gallons, BF=8.
We definitely have iron, and no mistake.
You would like a number... is it 0.5, 1, 3, 5 ppm, or what? Treat each ppm of iron as if it were 5 grains of hardness.
 

SEMIJim

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No. I got focused on the H=50 that the plumber put in. He was probably a lot more pessimistic on the iron than I was.
No, I meant how to get 50% distilled water in the vial.

But, with your comment below, now I understand your recommendation "Raw hardness = 25 ; including any compensation". 18 + 5 = 23 (and +2 for good measure?).

It comes operationally from BF=8 (because you have 1.5 cuft of resin), but to carry that out further:
Ok. Thanks!

You would like a number... is it 0.5, 1, 3, 5 ppm, or what? Treat each ppm of iron as if it were 5 grains of hardness.
Wish I'd known that before I went out and spent $30 on a hardness test kit :(

Iron test kits appear to be more expensive than water hardness test kits. *sigh* I think I'll just check with local water testing facilities. Maybe eBay the hardness test kit since it, alone, seems not terribly useful.

Thanks for your help! At least now I'll know what numbers to use once I figure out what H should be set to.

Question: Does the presence of manganese affect H? Because we have a lot of manganese in our water. As in: When changing the whole-house filter in-line before the softener, black sediment pours out with the water when I dump out the cartridge housing and I wipe black stuff that resembles black lithium grease off the top of it.

Jim
 

Reach4

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But, with your comment below, now I understand your recommendation "Raw hardness = 25 ; including any compensation". 18 + 5 = 23 (and +2 for good measure?).
Good measure: see
https://terrylove.com/forums/index....0-sxt-programming-settings.60651/#post-450189

The Hach 5B was a good thing to buy. You will also want that on a continuing basis, so you could check residual.

Iron is harder. For a well, it would be good to bite the bullet and get a lab water test.

Here are some notes:
DIY test strips: prolabinc.com
http://prolabtestkits.com/product/total-water-quality-kit/ $24.95
http://prolabtestkits.com/product/water-quality-test-kit/ $9.95

http://envirotestkits.com/
http://www.watercheck.com/
http://www.ntllabs.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=NTL&Category_Code=Homeowner
Watercheck 1 &2 has fairly comprehensive lab testing. $119.99 +overnight ship
Well-Check adds Coliform and E-coli bacteria testing $159.99 +overnight ship
needs overnight return shipping. Can optionally provide the shipping for
an unknown price.
http://envirotestkits.com/
http://envirotestkits.com/certified-lab-testing-hybrid/ has home bacteria test ship incl
http://envirotestkits.com/certified-lab-drinking-water-test-kits/ ship cold. ship not incl
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/water-test-results.74453/ example.
http://envirotestkits.com/product/safe-home-select-drinking-water-test-kit/ $99
most things you need for softener etc.

http://envirotestkits.com/product/safe-home-premium-drinking-water-test-kit/
$149 adds tannin, corrosivity

Local testing would be great. Illinois residents can get a test via the University of Illinois http://www.isws.illinois.edu/chem/psl/wtesting.asp, but they are not fast at all.

I think I would go with http://envirotestkits.com/product/safe-home-select-drinking-water-test-kit/ for $99. https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/water-test-results.74453/ shows an example from a person who posted a report.

However the NTL WellCheck is very highly recommended, http://www.ntllabs.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=NTL&Category_Code=Homeowner It is more comprehensive and costs maybe $200? with shipping. If you try it, let us know what it actually costs using their overnight shipping, which I suspect is significantly less than you would pay as a retail shipping customer.

If you care about the coliform test results, care needs to be taken in
sampling. http://www.ugra.org/pdfs/SamplingHandout.pdf is one description
of a method to avoid contaminating the sample.

Others I have no further knowledge of:
http://waterlabs.net/individual-tests/
https://www.cleanwaterstore.com/L1006700.html#tab=tab1 looks interesting
 
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Bannerman

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When was the last time a comprehensive lab test was performed?

If the well is private, then you are responsible for the water's safety and treatment. A comprehensive lab test should be performed periodically. National Labs is often recommended on this forum.

http://www.ntllabs.com/residential.html
 

SEMIJim

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Good measure: see
https://terrylove.com/forums/index....0-sxt-programming-settings.60651/#post-450189

The Hach 5B was a good thing to buy. You will also want that on a continuing basis, so you could check residual.

Iron is harder. For a well, it would be good to bite the bullet and get a lab water test.
Very well. In the interim, would you recommend I go ahead and plug in the settings you earlier recommended?

However the NTL WellCheck is very highly recommended, http://www.ntllabs.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=NTL&Category_Code=Homeowner It is more comprehensive and costs maybe $200? with shipping. If you try it, let us know what it actually costs using their overnight shipping, which I suspect is significantly less than you would pay as a retail shipping customer.
If I go that route: I will.

If you care about the coliform test results, care needs to be taken in
sampling. http://www.ugra.org/pdfs/SamplingHandout.pdf is one description
of a method to avoid contaminating the sample.
Noted. Thanks!

When was the last time a comprehensive lab test was performed?
By the County, when the new well was driven, twenty years ago.

If the well is private, then you are responsible for the water's safety and treatment.
Yeah... I've been meaning to have it done again, but it kept slipping my mind. I guess I best get 'er done.

Thanks for the guidance, the both of you!

Jim
 

Reach4

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Very well. In the interim, would you recommend I go ahead and plug in the settings you earlier recommended?
I did some edits since I first posted, but what is showing there now is what I would try for a while. You will probably be regenerating every 7 days (due to DO). That would put the regen on the same night each week, unless you used more water than normal. Given that, you could maybe test the residual hardness on the evening before regen for a while. If the hardness stays does not go over 1 grain, I would stay with it. If you find it has risen to 2 or 3 grains, your iron is probably high enough that you will want to raise the H setting.
 

SEMIJim

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Given that, you could maybe test the residual hardness on the evening before regen for a while. If the hardness stays does not go over 1 grain, I would stay with it. If you find it has risen to 2 or 3 grains, your iron is probably high enough that you will want to raise the H setting.
Finally remembered to test it before it cycled. Did it twice. Each time it came up solidly blue, right out of the gate, w/no Titrant solution added.

Last night was a good time to test it, too, as our water usage last week was a bit higher than normal. It starts out somewhere around 1200 gal. and is usually down to around 400 gal. remaining on Sunday evening. Last night it was under 200 remaining when I tested it.

So it looks like you nailed it, Reach4. Thanks again for your help!
 
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