Fleck 5800 sxt program help please

[hgminnesota]

I looked at the previous forum questions and couldnt figure out if my question was covered in one of them. Apologies if I missed something.

My question is what is the proper setting for capacity and brine fill time given the issue i have below?

My unit:
Fleck 5800SXT
1 cubic foot resin (i rebedded it a few weeks ago)
White sticker on venturi/screen cover. "00" and Drain Flow 2.0 gpm.
Venturi is purple.
Original installation sheet shows "brine fill (bf) = 28 min (9.45 lb), hardness =20, capacity= 26000."

The unit wasnt using salt, the old resin was legitimately shot, (sending fines into toilet tanks and kitchen counter water filter) and we had no soft water. Salt is on grid, was dry to bottom of grid before and after regen.

I rebedded the resin, it worked fine for a few weeks and now hard water. I ran a regen. During brine draw (60 minutes cycle) water flowed from brine tank to resin tank for about 13 minutes (no salt taste in drain water), then cycle continued, no additional water entered resin tank from brine tank, and 25 minutes in no salt in drain water (didnt wait to 60 minutes but cycled though). Regen cycled through and ended. Checked the brine tank after cycle ended. No salt used and salt was dry to touch. Had checked before cycle and no water was above the grid. I cleaned brine tank by removing salt, clearing clogged gid holes, and clearing out some small amount of caked salt. Water was pretty grey. I replaced the grid and put back about 5 inches of salt so i could monitor the next regen. I reran regen 2 more times. Same result. Your forum gave me information to check the connection from the brine to resin tank (solid), safety float intact and free moving and check ball in check valve free moving, air leak or bubbling (none) compression connection (not cracked and no kinks or damage to hose). Venturi and screen are clear. All o rings and the gasket lubed with proper grease. No water leaks.

I read the manual and it said water should be at least an inch above the grid. It wasn't. I reviewed the master program and saw setting was 14 minutes brine fill and 18000 capacity. I ran a brine fill that effectively doubled the 14 minute master set time to match the number on the installation sheet and then water was in contact with and at top of the 5 inches of salt. Ran a full regen. Water ran in brine draw into resin tank for about 20 minutes before stopping and cycle continued to 60 minute end. Definitely noticed salt in drain water about 10 minutes or so into cycle and that continued (checked at 23 but not after). No salt in rapid rinse. Salt level lowered about an inch in brine tank.

It seems that the 14 minute brine fill time didnt provide enough water to contact the salt?

The original installation sheet showed brine fill (bf)= 28 minutes (9.45 lbs) so i changed the fill time to 28 minutes from 14. As I said the water now comes in contact with the salt ..it was at top of 5 inch level and now slighty above the 4 inches remaining. Should I keep the brine fill time at 28 or the original 14 or somewhere in between?

I also reset the capacity from 18000 to 26000 to match the number on the installation sheet.

Have I done this right or should I modify these settings?

Thank you for helping me out.

 

[Reach4]

I presume the BLFC is 0.125 gal/minute. That is the smallest I know of.
Here is something I might consider for programming:

5800SXT System info (not programmed)​	​	​	​	​
salt lb/cuft​	:​	8​	;​	A choice ( efficiency vs capacity)​
BLFC​	:​	0.125​	;​	Brine Refill rate GPM​
cubic ft resin​	:​	1.0​	;​	Same as (nominal grains/32,000)​
Raw hardness​	:​	20.0​	;​	including iron etc​
Estimated gal/day​	​	120.0​	;​	60 gal per person typical calc​
Est days/regen​	​	9.0​	;​	presuming days each use reserve capacity​
​	​	​	​	​
​	​	​	​	​
Fleck 5800SXT Settings:​	​	​	​	​
DF​	=​	Gal​	;​	Units​
VT​	=​	5800.0​	;​	Valve type​
RF​	=​	dF2b​	;​	Downflow, Double Backwash​
CT​	=​	Fd​	;​	Meter Delayed regen trigger​
C​	=​	24.0​	;​	capacity in 1000 grains​
H​	=​	22​	;​	Hardness grains after comp factor​
RS​	=​	rc​	;​	rc says use gallons vs percent​
RC​	=​	120​	;​	Reserve capacity gallons​
DO​	=​	30​	;​	Day Override (typ 28 if no iron/Mn)​
RT​	=​	2:00​	;​	Regen time (default 2 AM)​
B1​	=​	6​	;​	Backwash 1 (minutes) [3...10]​
Bd​	=​	60​	;​	Brine draw minutes​
B2​	=​	4​	;​	Backwash 2 (minutes)[3...10]​
RR​	=​	6​	;​	Rapid Rinse minutes [5...10]​
BF​	=​	21​	;​	Brine fill minutes​
FM​	=​	T0.7 ??​	;​	Do not know default flow meter yet​

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[Sponsor]

 

[hgminnesota]

I presume the BLFC is 0.125 gal/minute. That is the smallest I know of.
Here is something I might consider for programming:

5800SXT System info (not programmed)​	​	​	​	​
salt lb/cuft​	:​	8​	;​	A choice ( efficiency vs capacity)​
BLFC​	:​	0.125​	;​	Brine Refill rate GPM​
cubic ft resin​	:​	1.0​	;​	Same as (nominal grains/32,000)​
Raw hardness​	:​	20.0​	;​	including iron etc​
Estimated gal/day​	​	120.0​	;​	60 gal per person typical calc​
Est days/regen​	​	9.0​	;​	presuming days each use reserve capacity​
​	​	​	​	​
​	​	​	​	​
Fleck 5800SXT Settings:​	​	​	​	​
DF​	=​	Gal​	;​	Units​
VT​	=​	5800.0​	;​	Valve type​
RF​	=​	dF2b​	;​	Downflow, Double Backwash​
CT​	=​	Fd​	;​	Meter Delayed regen trigger​
C​	=​	24.0​	;​	capacity in 1000 grains​
H​	=​	22​	;​	Hardness grains after comp factor​
RS​	=​	rc​	;​	rc says use gallons vs percent​
RC​	=​	120​	;​	Reserve capacity gallons​
DO​	=​	30​	;​	Day Override (typ 28 if no iron/Mn)​
RT​	=​	2:00​	;​	Regen time (default 2 AM)​
B1​	=​	6​	;​	Backwash 1 (minutes) [3...10]​
Bd​	=​	60​	;​	Brine draw minutes​
B2​	=​	4​	;​	Backwash 2 (minutes)[3...10]​
RR​	=​	6​	;​	Rapid Rinse minutes [5...10]​
BF​	=​	21​	;​	Brine fill minutes​
FM​	=​	T0.7 ??​	;​	Do not know default flow meter yet​

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​ ​ ​ ​ ​ ​ Thank you very much. I have questions about what happened in this situation if you have time and interest to respond. Any added information will be appreciated and helpful. The unit worked for 5 years with (I am assuming) the numbers the installer left on the sheet: "brine fill (bf) = 28 min (9.45 lb), hardness =20, capacity= 26000." After I rebedded the resin I did not change any numbers in the master program mode as I did not know what it was, yet when I did go through it to figure out what was happening today i saw the BF was 14 not 28 and the capacity was 18 not 26. I didnt have to reprogram anything when i reattached the Fleck to the tank after the rebed. Can you tell me what might have happened that would account for the change? The flow meter is a paddle. It is in working order. I dont know if that affects your calculations as you mentioned you do not know the default flow meter yet. Is paddle vs turbine what you are looking for or a number of some kind? Will that information affect your recommended settings? I do not know how to set a second backwash. Does the second BW significantly help or improve the regen or can i get by without it? The current water level is about 5 inches above the grid after a 28 minute BF. As i mentioned 14 minutes didnt reach the grid. How high should the water level be under the best circumstances? I am assuming the 21 minute BF you recommend is going to get the water level to the correct height but it would be helpful if I had a number i could use to measure it. Is that possible? If it matters to your calculations i replaced the original 8% unknown resin with 10% resin tech because we have 1.5 chlorine in our city water. Thank you again. You have relieved a lot of stress.

 

[hgminnesota]

I presume the BLFC is 0.125 gal/minute. That is the smallest I know of.
Here is something I might consider for programming:

5800SXT System info (not programmed)​	​	​	​	​
salt lb/cuft​	:​	8​	;​	A choice ( efficiency vs capacity)​
BLFC​	:​	0.125​	;​	Brine Refill rate GPM​
cubic ft resin​	:​	1.0​	;​	Same as (nominal grains/32,000)​
Raw hardness​	:​	20.0​	;​	including iron etc​
Estimated gal/day​	​	120.0​	;​	60 gal per person typical calc​
Est days/regen​	​	9.0​	;​	presuming days each use reserve capacity​
​	​	​	​	​
​	​	​	​	​
Fleck 5800SXT Settings:​	​	​	​	​
DF​	=​	Gal​	;​	Units​
VT​	=​	5800.0​	;​	Valve type​
RF​	=​	dF2b​	;​	Downflow, Double Backwash​
CT​	=​	Fd​	;​	Meter Delayed regen trigger​
C​	=​	24.0​	;​	capacity in 1000 grains​
H​	=​	22​	;​	Hardness grains after comp factor​
RS​	=​	rc​	;​	rc says use gallons vs percent​
RC​	=​	120​	;​	Reserve capacity gallons​
DO​	=​	30​	;​	Day Override (typ 28 if no iron/Mn)​
RT​	=​	2:00​	;​	Regen time (default 2 AM)​
B1​	=​	6​	;​	Backwash 1 (minutes) [3...10]​
Bd​	=​	60​	;​	Brine draw minutes​
B2​	=​	4​	;​	Backwash 2 (minutes)[3...10]​
RR​	=​	6​	;​	Rapid Rinse minutes [5...10]​
BF​	=​	21​	;​	Brine fill minutes​
FM​	=​	T0.7 ??​	;​	Do not know default flow meter yet​

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I again apologize for taking your time. I am a rank amateur.

First, there was a reference in an answer to a different poster that if a regen occurred without sufficient salt then hardness would continue for an extended period of time....that definitely happened with us for multiple rsgens. Is there a general length of time that might continue?

Has the resin i rebedded a few weeks ago been damaged by regen happening w/o salt?

Is it possible that we had soft water for a few weeks after rebed even without salt used because resin was new and finally got fouled over a period of time?

After resetting the softener to your recommended settings is a single regen sufficient to clean the resin or should i repeat for "x" number of times?
 
I noticed that the faucet icon isnt flashing when it used to when the meter reading dropped below the 150 reserve capacity but the available gallons reading goes back up to what i would expect after a regen when i look the next day. Is there a setging I have missed or inadvertently changed during rebed? I didnt do anything to the controller except take it off and put it on.

 

[Reach4]

Has the resin i rebedded a few weeks ago been damaged by regen happening w/o salt?

Is it possible that we had soft water for a few weeks after rebed even without salt used because resin was new and finally got fouled over a period of time?

Did you pre-load the water in the brine tank, so that the first regen had brine? The amount you would have pre-loaded is whatever it takes to get to the middle of the check valve, plus the amount of water that gets added at the end of each regen.

The resin starts fully charged.

Whenever you change settings, the valve controller thinks it has regenerated, so starts the countdown gallons at the big number.

If you have exhausted your resin, you could just regen again for simplicity.

In operation, there should always be some salt higher than the liquid level. If the salt all under water, there can be stratification-- the upper water will be lighter, and not saturated with salt.

 

[hgminnesota]

Thank you. I did run a regen after getting water to contact salt (when I used a 28 minute BF) and am going to run another tonight with your settings.

Im not sure how long it might be before we notice soft water again. The water contacted salt regen was sunday night around 9 pm. I expect the new resin got very fouled over the past few weeks. Any general rule of thumb?

 

[Reach4]

Thank you. I did run a regen after getting water to contact salt

Some salt should always be above the liquid. You can tilt the pour to help get that.

If that is not feasible due to some testing, or shortage of salt, or something, stir things up to beat stratification.

Note that the cold water should feel softer pretty quickly after regen, but the water heater may take some time to run thru its hard water.

A Hach 5-B hardness test is nice for testing residual hardness, as well as measuring the hardness of your raw water.

 

[Bannerman]

Original installation sheet shows "brine fill (bf) = 28 min (9.45 lb), hardness =20, capacity= 26000."

Suggest looking for an additional label to verify which BLFC (brine line flow control) flow restrictor is installed. This will be the flow rate that water will enter the brine tank to create the salt brine utilized to regenerate the resin's hardness removal capacity that becomes depleted each cycle.

Standard Fleck BLFC flow rates include 0.125, 0.25, 0.5 & 1.0 GPM.

As each gallon of water entering the brine tank will cause 3 lbs salt to become dissolved, with a 0.125 gpm BLFC installed, 28-minutes Brine Fill should then result in 3.5 gallons entering the brine tank, which will dissolve 10.5 lbs salt, not 9.45 lbs.

1 cubic foot resin, has a total hardness reduction capacity of 32,000 grains, but to regenerate 100% of the resin's capacity will require 20lbs salt each cycle, which would be excessive, wasteful and inefficient at only 1,600 grains per lb.

To increase salt efficiency, while continuing to obtain a high useable capacity and high quality soft water, the usual recommendation is to program the Capacity setting to 24,000 grains, as only 8 lbs salt will be needed to regenerate that amount of useable capacity (=3,000 gr/lb efficiency). To dissolve 8 lbs salt while using a 0.125 gpm BLFC, will require the Brine Fill setting to be 21.33 minutes (round up to 22-minutes).

Your 1ft3 resin has a total hardness reduction capacity of 32,000 grains, but because 100% of the capacity had been depleted, then 1 regeneration using 10.5 lbs salt will be regenerating only ~26,000 grains capacity, which will signify there is ~6,000 grains worth of potential resin capacity that was not regenerated, and so will be providing 0 hardness reduction, which will result in a high amount of hardness leakage through the softener.

By performing 2-manual regenerations, back-to-back while using 10.5 lbs each, will result in the resin's total capacity becoming regenerated, which will lower the amount of hardness leakage through the softener.

FM​

=​

T0.7 ??​

;​

Do not know default flow meter yet​

Recommend also posting a photo (low resolution) which shows the Flow meter on the back of your softener. The flow meter will be located on the softener's outlet connection, which will be the connection on the left when facing the controller from the front. There are two possible flow meter types, and either is equipped with a wire which protrudes and becomes connected to the controller.

 

[hgminnesota]

Some salt should always be above the liquid. You can tilt the pour to help get that.

If that is not feasible due to some testing, or shortage of salt, or something, stir things up to beat stratification.

Note that the cold water should feel softer pretty quickly after regen, but the water heater may take some time to run thru its hard water.

A Hach 5-B hardness test is nice for testing residual hardness, as well as measuring the hardness of your raw water.

Thank you. I will get a Hach test set.

 

[hgminnesota]

Suggest looking for an additional label to verify which BLFC (brine line flow control) flow restrictor is installed. This will be the flow rate that water will enter the brine tank to create the salt brine utilized to regenerate the resin's hardness removal capacity that becomes depleted each cycle.

Standard Fleck BLFC flow rates include 0.125, 0.25, 0.5 & 1.0 GPM.

As each gallon of water entering the brine tank will cause 3 lbs salt to become dissolved, with a 0.125 gpm BLFC installed, 28-minutes Brine Fill should then result in 3.5 gallons entering the brine tank, which will dissolve 10.5 lbs salt, not 9.45 lbs.

1 cubic foot resin, has a total hardness reduction capacity of 32,000 grains, but to regenerate 100% of the resin's capacity will require 20lbs salt each cycle, which would be excessive, wasteful and inefficient at only 1,600 grains per lb.

To increase salt efficiency, while continuing to obtain a high useable capacity and high quality soft water, the usual recommendation is to program the Capacity setting to 24,000 grains, as only 8 lbs salt will be needed to regenerate that amount of useable capacity (=3,000 gr/lb efficiency). To dissolve 8 lbs salt while using a 0.125 gpm BLFC, will require the Brine Fill setting to be 21.33 minutes (round up to 22-minutes).

Your 1ft3 resin has a total hardness reduction capacity of 32,000 grains, but because 100% of the capacity had been depleted, then 1 regeneration using 10.5 lbs salt will be regenerating only ~26,000 grains capacity, which will signify there is ~6,000 grains worth of potential resin capacity that was not regenerated, and so will be providing 0 hardness reduction, which will result in a high amount of hardness leakage through the softener.

By performing 2-manual regenerations, back-to-back while using 10.5 lbs each, will result in the resin's total capacity becoming regenerated, which will lower the amount of hardness leakage through the softener.


Recommend also posting a photo (low resolution) which shows the Flow meter on the back of your softener. The flow meter will be located on the softener's outlet connection, which will be the connection on the left when facing the controller from the front. There are two possible flow meter types, and either is equipped with a wire which protrudes and becomes connected to the controller.

Thank you very much. You and Teach4 have been very helpful. You are slso spot on with each others recommendations.


I did review my manual and see we have a 3/4 " paddle meter.

 

[Bannerman]

we have a 3/4 " paddle meter

The FM setting should then be 'P0.7', not 'T0.7'

 

[hgminnesota]

Thank you. I will get a Hach test set.

I

The FM setting should then be 'P0.7', not 'T0.7'

I will make sure that is set correctly then and will check the BLFC gpm as well. I have learned a lot, the hard way unfortunately, and thank you very much

 

[hgminnesota]

Thank you. I will get a Hach test set.

I have learned a lot about this subject from you and thank you for your help. I had read the forums but couldnt understand the numbers, formulas, parts involved, and settings until you applied them to my situation. Hats off sir

 

[hgminnesota]

I

I will make sure that is set correctly then and will check the BLFC gpm as well. I have learned a lot, the hard way unfortunately, and thank you very much

I lookedvat the photo of the green tag on the brass connector from the brine tank to the control valve. It says .12 gpm and .37 salt/min. Is that the blfc information I was looking for? Does that change your calculations?

 

[hgminnesota]

Thank you very much. You and Teach4 have been very helpful. You are slso spot on with each others recommendations.


I did review my manual and see we have a 3/4 " paddle meter.

looked at the green tag on the brass connector from the brine tank to the control valve. It says .12 gpm and .37 salt/min. Is that the blfc information I was looking for? Does that change your calculations?

 

[Bannerman]

Is that the blfc information I was looking for?

Yes. Don't know why they limit the label to 2 decimal places as .12gpm is actually .125 gpm.

Although I usually calculate the salt amount using the long method (0.125 BLFC X 22 minutes BF = 2.75 gallons X 3 lbs/gal = 8.25 lbs), the label also provides a shorter calculation method since 0.375 lbs/minute X 22 minutes BF = 8.25 lbs.

 

[hgminnesota]

Yes. Don't know why they limit the label to 2 decimal places as .12gpm is actually .125 gpm.

Although I usually calculate the salt amount using the long method (0.125 BLFC X 22 minutes BF = 2.75 gallons X 3 lbs/gal = 8.25 lbs), the label also provides short calculation method since 0.375 lbs/minute X 22 minutes BF = 8.25 lbs.

You are awesome! Thank you!

 

[Reach4]

The molded number on a 0.125 BLFC is 123, oddly enough. I suspect 125 is for 12.5 gpm. One thought I had is that the 3 is related to the placement of the decimal point. I feel the symptoms are compatible with you having a 0.125.

 

[hgminnesota]

The molded number on a 0.125 BLFC is 123, oddly enough. I suspect 125 is for 12.5 gpm. One thought I had is that the 3 is related to the placement of the decimal point. I feel the symptoms are compatible with you having a 0.125.

Thank you Reach4. I decided against disassembling the unit to check the number molded on the part. Im not sure where it is but assume the sticker is correct, especially since you consider the symptoms to be consistent with a 0.125.

 

[hgminnesota]

I presume the BLFC is 0.125 gal/minute. That is the smallest I know of.
Here is something I might consider for programming:

5800SXT System info (not programmed)​	​	​	​	​
salt lb/cuft​	:​	8​	;​	A choice ( efficiency vs capacity)​
BLFC​	:​	0.125​	;​	Brine Refill rate GPM​
cubic ft resin​	:​	1.0​	;​	Same as (nominal grains/32,000)​
Raw hardness​	:​	20.0​	;​	including iron etc​
Estimated gal/day​	​	120.0​	;​	60 gal per person typical calc​
Est days/regen​	​	9.0​	;​	presuming days each use reserve capacity​
​	​	​	​	​
​	​	​	​	​
Fleck 5800SXT Settings:​	​	​	​	​
DF​	=​	Gal​	;​	Units​
VT​	=​	5800.0​	;​	Valve type​
RF​	=​	dF2b​	;​	Downflow, Double Backwash​
CT​	=​	Fd​	;​	Meter Delayed regen trigger​
C​	=​	24.0​	;​	capacity in 1000 grains​
H​	=​	22​	;​	Hardness grains after comp factor​
RS​	=​	rc​	;​	rc says use gallons vs percent​
RC​	=​	120​	;​	Reserve capacity gallons​
DO​	=​	30​	;​	Day Override (typ 28 if no iron/Mn)​
RT​	=​	2:00​	;​	Regen time (default 2 AM)​
B1​	=​	6​	;​	Backwash 1 (minutes) [3...10]​
Bd​	=​	60​	;​	Brine draw minutes​
B2​	=​	4​	;​	Backwash 2 (minutes)[3...10]​
RR​	=​	6​	;​	Rapid Rinse minutes [5...10]​
BF​	=​	21​	;​	Brine fill minutes​
FM​	=​	T0.7 ??​	;​	Do not know default flow meter yet​

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Reach4, i forgot to follow up on your recommendation to set a double backwash. I can access the masyer programmig now, but do not know how to set the double and time for each. Can you provide advice so I get it right? Thank you.