Fleck 5600 capacity numbers

[Al Garrido]

ok...first...thank you to all who helped me set my numbers! thank you!
I've been reading a lot of post on here and learned a number of things i didn't know and has shed some light on the whole process.

However, I still don't quite understand why setting my softener to 36 instead of 48 as that is the size.

So how does that make it more efficient. I get that it needs less salt when it regenerates, but doesn't it just regenerate less? When I had it set at 48....the gallons that it showed before next regeneration was somewhere around 4200 gallons. Right now after i regenerated, it was 2700.

Also, I read the argument of "balancing salt usage vs water quality". I thought there is only so much salt that water will absorb. So why wouldn't you just get the numbers right for 48k?

Asked differently, what if i want more water quality...is that even a "thing"? If maximum water quality was my priority and didn't care to much about efficiency, what would that get me as far as water quality.

thank you again for the help.
I"m looking forward to see if someone can dumb it down for me! ;-)

 

[Bannerman]

didn't care to much about efficiency, what would that get me as far as water quality.

The link below is to a chart which indicates various regenerated capacities when using various quantities of salt.

Follow the leftmost column down to 1.5 ft3 for your softener, then scan right to the various capacity amounts in each column. At the top of each specifies the salt amount in lbs per ft3 whereas the bottom of each column lists the hardness removal efficiency (summarized in post #2 of this thread) as well as the amount of hardness leakage expected for each salt amount. Less hardness leakage translates to higher water quality but lower efficiency.

When programming a softener, water hardness is measured in grains per gallon but hardness leakage is indicated on the chart as ppm. FYI 17.1 ppm = 1 gpg.

Water treatment typically involves compromise. Higher efficiency involves less usable capacity before regeneration occurs, but also results in higher hardness leakage. Unlike a steam boiler feed or other industrial process, a specific amount of softness is not usually critical for a residential application. As a reasonable compromise of efficiency, capacity and water quality, 12 lbs salt to regenerate 36K grains in a 1.5 ft3 softener is the most common recommendation, but when higher efficiency is desired, then 9 lbs to regenerate 31.5K grains will provide slightly lower water quality while further increasing efficiency by >10%.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?attachments/resin-chart-jpg.53316/

While 1.5 ft3 of resin may contain 48K grains total hardness removal capacity when manufactured, total capacity is not really usable in practice. Resin granules that became broken during manufacture, packaging etc, will be flushed to drain during each softener's initial backwash cycle. As the resin becomes worn over time, small granules will continue to be flushed away. The amount of capacity lost over the life of the softener is not usually excessive, but is measurable.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

1 grain=17.1 g/l

Where on the curves would you like to be?

At the bottom of #12 I had sort of a table for you. Here is an expanded version with the added grains/pound of salt column on the right that lists the amount of water softening that gets done by each pound of salt:
Based on numbers from https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/help-for-programming-fleck-5810.82673/#post-595983

BLFC = 0.5
cubic ft resin = 1.5
Alternative C and BF pairs:
lb/cuft ; C= ; BF= ; grains/pound of salt
2.000 ; 15.0 ; 2 ; 5011 ; very salt efficient, but too much hardness leakage.
3.000 ; 20.7 ; 3 ; 4610
4.000 ; 25.1 ; 4 ; 4191
5.000 ; 28.7 ; 5 ; 3820
6.000 ; 31.5 ; 6 ; 3503
7.000 ; 33.9 ; 7 ; 3231 ; numbers I chose in post #10
8.000 ; 36.0 ; 8 ; 2997
9.000 ; 37.7 ; 9 ; 2795
10.000 ; 39.3 ; 10 ; 2617
11.000 ; 40.6 ; 11 ; 2461
12.000 ; 41.8 ; 12 ; 2323
13.000 ; 42.9 ; 13 ; 2199
14.000 ; 43.8 ; 14 ; 2088
15.000 ; 44.7 ; 15 ; 1987
16.000 ; 45.5 ; 16 ; 1896
17.000 ; 46.2 ; 17 ; 1812
18.000 ; 46.9 ; 18 ; 1736
19.000 ; 47.5 ; 19 ; 1666
20.000 ; 48.0 ; 20 ; 1601
21.000 ; 48.5 ; 21 ; 1541
22.000 ; 49.0 ; 22 ; 1485
23.000 ; 49.4 ; 23 ; 1433
24.000 ; 49.9 ; 24 ; 1385
25.000 ; 50.2 ; 25 ; 1340
26.000 ; 50.6 ; 26 ; 1297
27.000 ; 50.9 ; 27 ; 1257
28.000 ; 51.2 ; 28 ; 1220
29.000 ; 51.5 ; 29 ; 1184
30.000 ; 51.8 ; 30 ; 1151
31.000 ; 52.0 ; 31 ; 1119
32.000 ; 52.3 ; 32 ; 1089
33.000 ; 52.5 ; 33 ; 1061
34.000 ; 52.7 ; 34 ; 1034
35.000 ; 52.9 ; 35 ; 1008
36.000 ; 53.1 ; 36 ; 984 ;Note the 4th column salt efficiency.
37.000 ; 53.3 ; 37 ; 960
38.000 ; 53.5 ; 38 ; 938
39.000 ; 53.6 ; 39 ; 917

The less salt per cubic ft, the more salt efficient, but more hardness breakthrough.

 

[Al Garrido]

@Bannerman and @Reach4
Thanks for the info...this makes sense now!

@Reach.....thank you for your suggestions for numbers.
Dumb question coming......your suggestions show a C of "33.9" and BF of 7.
Ok...I can set the BF at 7.....but 33.9? Do I round up to 34 on the controller? I see no way to enter a decimal

 

[Reach4]

@Bannerman and @Reach4
Thanks for the info...this makes sense now!

@Reach.....thank you for your suggestions for numbers.
Dumb question coming......your suggestions show a C of "33.9" and BF of 7.
Ok...I can set the BF at 7.....but 33.9? Do I round up to 34 on the controller? I see no way to enter a decimal

This is a snip from the 5600SXT service manual Rev H.

My 5600SXT is being used as a timed filter, and it has no meter, so it is not convenient to check what it would show for C. What do you see when you set C and use the up and down arrows to set C?

Anyway, rounding down is traditionally the safest, but unbiased rounding up that little bit is certainly OK. You are not going to notice the difference. The capacity being used up is not a brick wall. Additionally, there is a tad of margin built in.

 

[Al Garrido]

my manual shows same thing....but when i go into program....can on use whole number....unless i'missing something.

see picture.

 

[Reach4]

Thanks.

 

[Sponge bob]

System info (not programmed)
salt lb/cuft = 7 ; A choice ( efficiency vs capacity)
BLFC = 0.5 ; Brine Refill rate GPM
cubic ft resin = 1.5 ; ft3 resin = (nominal grains)/32,000
Compensated hardness = 11 ; including any compensation
People = 2 ; gallons affects reserve calc
Estimated gal/day = 120 ; 60 gal per person typical calc
Estimated days/regen = 25.04 ; Computed days including reserve
Fleck 5600SXT Settings:
DF = Gal ; Units
VT = dF1b ; Downflw/, Single Backwash, black cam
CT = Fd ; Meter Delayed regen trigger
NT = 1 ; Number of tanks
C = 33.9 ; capacity in 1000 grains
H = 11 ; Hardness-- compensate if needed
RS = rc ; rc says use gallons vs percent
RC = 120 ; Reserve capacity gallons
DO = 30 ; Day Override (28 to 30 if no iron)
RT = 2:00 ; Regen time (default 2 AM)
BW = 5 ; Backwash (minutes)
Bd = 50 to 60 ; Brine draw minutes (60 typical)
RR = 5 ; Rapid Rinse minutes
BF = 7 ; Brine fill minutes
FM = ____0.7 ; https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?attachments/img_fleck5600sxt_flow-png.31592/

Revised based on number from https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/help-for-programming-fleck-5810.82673/#post-595983

My system has recycled twice on it's own since changing to the above settings. Last night I checked the hardness and it was 14-15. This morning after recycling it was 2-3. Should I up the hardness number to 14?, any other changes? Force a recycle?

 

[Reach4]

My system has recycled twice on it's own since changing to the above settings. Last night I checked the hardness and it was 14-15. This morning after recycling it was 2-3. Should I up the hardness number to 14?, any other changes? Force a recycle?

With only this info, I would set H to something significantly higher than what it currently is.

Did you by chance test the hot water line, because it takes a while for the water to work through the water heater.

Did you test the first few gallons from that cold faucet?

 

[Sponge bob]

With only this info, I would set H to something significantly higher than what it currently is.

Did you by chance test the hot water line, because it takes a while for the water to work through the water heater.

Did you test the first few gallons from that cold faucet?

I ran the cold about 5 minutes before testing, my faucet is 50 feet (pipe length) away. I did not test the hot.

Same way last night and today.

 

[Bannerman]

I checked the hardness and it was 14-15.

Municipal water is usually obtained from multiple sources and each source will often have a different hardness amount.

While it may have tested 11 gpg initially, it has now tested at 15 gpg. It is advisable to program 2-3 gpg higher than tested at your location to anticipate occasions when hardness may be higher than tested. Suggest programming H= 18.

Because additional hardness has depleted the resin's capacity beyond the amount that 10.5 lbs salt (7 minutes BF X 0.5 BLFC X 3) will restore, reprogram the hardness setting and then immediately perform an additional manual regeneration to regenerate some of the additional depleted capacity.

 

[Sponge bob]

Thanks, making the changes now.

 

[Sponge bob]

After the recharge the hardness is back at "0".
How high in the salt reservoir should the water be? I have the 11" square container and with 1 bag of salt in it the water is at 15".

 

[Reach4]

After the recharge the hardness is back at "0".
How high in the salt reservoir should the water be? I have the 11" square container and with 1 bag of salt in it the water is at 15".

With BF=7 minutes, giving 3.5 gallons of water, and with some simplifications,
about 6.5 inches above the arrow on the air check valve with no salt, and about 16 inches, or so, initially with salt.

The brine only sucks down to the mark on the air check valve, so refill begins from there. https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?attachments/img_2-png.52226/

 

[Sponge bob]

With BF=7 minutes, giving 3.5 gallons of water, and with some simplifications,
about 6.5 inches above the arrow on the air check valve with no salt, and about 16 inches, or so, initially with salt.

The brine only sucks down to the mark on the air check valve, so refill begins from there. https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?attachments/img_2-png.52226/

Thanks for explaining, looks like it is where it's supposed to be.