At the end of my rope: sediment, water pressure, and well problems

[mamajane]

House was built in 2016. At the time, the builders had the well drillers drill a well to 120' but put in their own pump and did their own testing (normally the drilling company installs and tests everything). I am not sure if the builders were trying to save some money and cut corners, or if that's a normal option around here.

We moved in May of 2016. From the start, the well had a lot more sediment than our previous house two streets over (also on a well). We have struggled with low water pressure (it comes and goes), emptying the little sand filter near the pressure tank frequently (would fill large 10 gallon buckets with very fine sand in the course of one month), unclogging faucets and shower heads, and scooping cupfuls of sand and muddy sediment from toilet tanks.

The water tested well and was really good tasting. We just had to often let sand settle to the bottom before drinking.

Six people lived in this house and we had to schedule out showers and toilet flushes otherwise you'd end up with just a sprinkle to freeze beneath when it was your turn to shower.

In 2019 we bought a filtration system from Aquasana. I don't know if I'm allowed to link it. But hoped it would help filter out some sand. It was difficult to find someone to install it. I didn't get it installed until earlier this year (2021).

The filtration system clogged immediately and I had to turn on the bypass system until I could get the bigger problem sorted. The sand and mineral build up also regularly breaks appliances and faucets, so I had the plumbers replace the kitchen faucet and two bathroom faucets. I was upset, I wanted to fix the sediment problem before mucking up new faucets, but they had broken and were leaking out the sides, threatening to flood the house.

I also had a broken/leaking pressure valve at the bottom of the pressure tank. The plumbers tried to replace it, but claimed it "exploded" when the new one went on, and the basement utility room was full of sand and water. They said they'd never seen anything like it and marveled at the buckets of sand we had from emptying the sand filter. They recommended I call a well drilling company.

We live in a rural area and there are only two main drilling companies. I called the one everyone seems to use and they too marveled at how much sediment we had. Said it was the worst they had ever seen. They were able to access the country records to ascertain that they hadn't drilled the original will and figured out who had. They suggested I call the other company and didn't seem to want to touch anything.

Meanwhile, our water stopped working almost completely. We had no water coming out of the faucets, a toilet in the hall refused to even fill (no water going into the tank) and I didn't have enough water coming out of the new kitchen faucet to do any dishes or cook. We had to move to a hotel.

The second drilling company came out but they were really confused, trying to figure out why they only drilled 120' deep and why they hadn't been the ones to set up the pump and do all the testing. Still, they wanted to help me out and hoped they'd be able to drill another 20 or 40' down and install a sand screen. But after more investigation the guy thought there was a high chance it'd be a waste of money and wouldn't work because of the way the well was drilled. I wish I could remember everything he said, but I can't. He recommended we drill a whole new well to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars.

I called the original well company back and explained everything I could, they thought he had made a correct assessment.

It took a solid week to drill the new well. They started Monday and finished drilling Wednesday. They went 180' and installed a 20' sand screen. They ran the new hydrant for several hours on Thursday and backfilled around the new well, then came back Friday to "flush the house" from the inside out. It sounded like it would clean out all my pipes, but they only did the main pipe from the pressure tank to the new well to clear it of sand. They said that pipe was "clear full" and reiterated that they'd never seen a sediment problem this bad.

We came home Friday and after cleaning out the faucet screens and the sand trap next to the pressure tank, we had good water pressure in the bathroom faucets. Water pressure was still bad in the showers and kitchen faucets, but I hoped we could clean things out and get things running. I soaked shower heads in vinegar and used pins and a steam cleaner to blast out sand and mineral build up and could get them running for a little while, but eventually the pressure would seem to disappear.

I called the well company and they told me to run the hydrant for several more hours. I'm confused as to why this will help "flush" anything in the house as it's running directly from the well. But I followed instructions and did so.

We emptied the sand trap next to the pressure tank (clear full of sand) three or four times, changed all the filters on the fancy Aquasana filter and got that running again, but nothing seemed to help. Afraid the Aquasana would just end up clogged again, I turned the bypass back on.

I've had trouble getting a plumber to come out again. I've called nine different companies at this point and don't have anyone lined up. The well guy just seems to think we need to continue using the well and cleaning out all the fiddly little screens and filters until it finally runs clean.

I think it's pretty clear we're dealing with a build of sand inside the house pipes from the old well. If the main pipe leading from the old well to the pressure tank was any indication, these are all chock full of muddy sand and sediment.

Is there ANY way I can have these inside-the-house pipes snaked or vacuumed out? And if so, who on earth would I call? Most plumbers seem bewildered when I tell them even a portion of our problem. Again, we live in a rural area so I don't have a lot of options.

Any help would be appreciated. I can share photos of the tank and various valves and filters if needed.

 

[Reach4]

I think it's pretty clear we're dealing with a build of sand inside the house pipes from the old well. If the main pipe leading from the old well to the pressure tank was any indication, these are all chock full of muddy sand and sediment.

I think this summarizes where you are. The new well seems to be sand-free. Good.


I am thinking of rigging up something where you run water backwards through the piping. One example would be to shut off the valve after the pressure tank. Check that turning the pump off , so the water pressure goes to zero, does not produce sand. Do that several times until no new sediment.


Then run a garden hose with a female-female adapter to each laundry tap in turn from the drain valve on the pressure tank. Turn on to back-flow that path. The path for the hot side will go through the WH.

I would drain the water into an outdoor bucket that overflows, mainly to monitor that sand indeed got washed out. 3/4 inch ID hoses not much longer than needed would allow better flow.

Power flush the WH to get the sediment out of that, but maybe that should wait until you get all of the hot lines that you will backflush done.
Flushing is an easy DIY thing. See https://terrylove.com/forums/index....o-flush-a-hot-water-heater.79444/#post-576623 post #7.


Your plumber could add in some more boiler valves to use for the backflushing operations.

Now if your house plumbing is galvanized, then maybe instead of a cleaning operation, a repiping would be a good idea. Cleaning plastic or copper pipes is worthwhile. With galvanized, there is an added bonus of removing that.

After doing your cleaning, I would sanitize the well and plumbing. I am not a pro.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Bannerman]

The purpose for running the yard hydrant is to attempt to 'develop' the well, to cause the finer sand particles that can pass through the well casing sand filter to enter where they maybe be pumped to the surface for elimination.

The well pump may be able to deliver much more flow than the hydrant is capable of flowing and if so, using the hydrant for only a few hours will not properly develop the well to sufficiently clear sand and other sediment. The best method will be to disconnect at the top of the well head and allow the pump to run unrestricted at the maximum flow rate to pump water and sediment to the yard.

Depending on many factors including the well recovery rate, pump capacity, pump depth, location of water entry into the well casing etc, some wells may develop within only a few hours whereas others may require continuous pumping for a week straight. If while pumping, the water begins to run clear, it is often usefull to then shut off the pump for 10-minutes, and restart the pump again to determine if additional debris becomes evedent. If so, the on/off pump cycles may need to be repeated until no further sediment is observed.

To clear the house plumbing, faucet aerators and the inlet screens to flexible supply hoses to laundry and other appliances will need to be removed to allow water to flow at the maximum flow rate to each. There will be little point to clearing the house plumbing if the well continues to deliver sediment into the system.

You didn't mention the type of sand trap filter currently used. The Atlas Filtri Hydra maybe a better option for your application as it maybe equipped with an automatic purge kit to allow collected debris to be automatically purged out on a programmed schedule.

 

[mamajane]

Thanks all. I'm not very handy and I'm a widow. But I'll try to find someone to help with these suggestions.

I do have all PVC piping.

The sand filter thing I have is an Action 50 mesh filter. It does have an automatic purge which we have to empty 3-4 times a day.

 

[Reach4]

The sand filter thing I have is an Action 50 mesh filter. It does have an automatic purge which we have to empty 3-4 times a day.

You STILL have to empty that, even after the new well? Then I misunderstood, and you have to continue "developing" the well by pumping for long periods not through the filter.

You might post a photo that shows the pipe from the well, the pressure switch, the bottom of the pressure tank, and the mesh filter.

 

[mamajane]

So far yes Four times yesterday twice times today, so it might be getting a little better. I did run the hydrant for several hours today.

Okay, I'll take some photos tomorrow and post - the pipes & valves down there are so confusing.

 

[mamajane]

Here are some photos.

Pressure tank & water heater side:

Opposite side of the same room where the water filtration system resides:

Bottom of pressure tank. It's kind of a spaghetti bowl, but you can see where the pipes come up from the ground. There's a stub ready for a sprinkler system to the right with a drain valve of some kind.

Close up of pressure tank configuration at the bottom. Very weird pressure relief valve that I can't hook a hose to:

Close up of the sand filter installed to the left of the pressure tank. This will sometimes be visibly full of sand, but usually looks clear. However, when we empty it, a big cloud of red sand will fill up before flushing out.

Close up of water heater if needed:

Here's a video of the current status of in-house water (filmed last night in the middle of the night but no change this morning): http://verymom.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/IMG_3572.mov

If we go release the sand filter, even if it's not full of sand, we get a bit of water going for a while. Maybe an hour or so, long enough to run a single appliance or take a shower. But then the pressure goes away.

Thank you.

 

[Bannerman]

Suggest shutting off the pump, open a faucet to drain remaining system pressure. Once drained, temporarily remove the pressure relief valve and replace it with a ball valve equipped with a garden hose connection to connect a garden hose.

Because the pressure tank T is the lowest point in the system, I suspect the Tee and much if the tank will be filled with sand. Once a hose is connected to the ball valve, reactivate the pump to attempt to flush as much sand out as possible. This will probably require repeatedly turning on & off the ball valve to allow pressure to build by the water entering the pressure tank, which should then assist to loosen the sand within to push it out through the ball valve and hose.

If the Tee and nipple below the pressure switch are blocked, the pressure switch may not be correctly sensing low pressure to know when to supply power to the pump, and may not sense when the pressure has risen to know when to shut off the pump. You may need to use some wire such as from a wire coat hanger to insert into the tank Tee before threading in the ball valve so as to loosen any blockage. If the pump will still not activate once powered, the pressure switch will then probably need to be removed to clear out blockage in the nipple below.

Suggest installing an additional brass Tee into where the pressure relief valve is currently installed, to allow the ball valve and pressure relief valve to both be installed at the same time.

 

[Valveman]

Getting sand out of the house lines can be a real problem. But there is no need in even trying until you get the well making clean water. The 50 mesh filter is not catching all the sand, and using that water is just making the house plumbing worse. Bannerman has a good idea about adding a ball valve in place of the pressure relief, as the tank and lines will be hard to flush in the upward direction.

With PVC pipe you have to be very careful with air, but using air to blow out the lines may work best. I would remove the filter housing. Put a barrel under the filter, and blow from the ends of the lines one at a time back to the barrel under the filter. You can use s filler valve or Schrader valve for a tubeless tire. Holding the rubber filler for tubeless tires to an open faucet, you can blow air back towards the tank and filter.

 

[Bannerman]

Placing a filter before the pressure switch & tank is not advisable as the pressure switch would not shut the pump off if the filter became blocked.

Perhaps if the pressure tank was raised on a platform, the pipe feeding the house could then be placed below the T. With a sand filter in the lowest position directly after the T, the filter would more likely catch more sand. The current location for the 50 mesh filter requires the sand to be propelled at sufficient velocity to be carried upwards to enter the filter. Most household water use is usually at an insufficient flow rate to propel the heavier sand particles upwards to the filter.

FYI, your Action 50 mesh is not equipped with an automatic purge valve, but only a ball valve at the bottom which is manually operated. The auto purge recommended earlier for the Hydra, is an electric valve that is controlled by a battery operated timer. When equipped with a drain line to discharge to a suitable drain, it will automatically purge the sand from the filter on a schedule you program.

 

[mamajane]

FYI, your Action 50 mesh is not equipped with an automatic purge valve, but only a ball valve at the bottom which is manually operated.

Ahhh! Automatic would be nice.

 

[Reach4]

Ahhh! Automatic would be nice.

Does that clear housing on your Action 50 mesh filter fill up with sand or sediment, or is the filtered stuff all sitting on the screen? Looks like iron. Maybe SRB is clinging.

Does cleaning that screen mean opening the housing and brushing the mesh? That's gotta get old.

A sanitizing may improve things for a while. How long? 4 weeks, 4 months, 4 years? Could be any of those. https://terrylove.com/forums/index....izing-extra-attention-to-4-inch-casing.65845/ is my sanitizing writeup. It is more rigorous than most. Simpler methods will improve things for a while, but I think a shorter while.

 

[Skyguy]

Drilling a new well because the water pressure isn't right? Interesting. I guess you got scammed. Drillers LOVE to drill wells. The deeper the better. You know why? Because they get more $$$ the deeper they drill!

Having sediment in well water is nothing new. It's pretty common! If your well delivers water, it's deep enough. Otherwise you wouldn't get water. Makes sense?

I'd check the psi pressure of the pressure switch and the pressure of the pressure tank. If that's not high enough I'd check the pump. But after glancing over your pics I am asking myself why you have so many filter stuff there. You probably just need the sediment filter. One, not more! The other filters reduce the pressure more and more. And sand alone probably won't set in the pipes. It'll be washed out over time from the water running through. IF your pressure is high enough! Higher pressure - more water!

The only thing I'd replace is the black elbows. They are not to code and have smaller diameter than the pipes. Can you see that? Replacing those elbows with some which fit the pipes and go on the OUTSIDE of the pipes is much better. Hence more flow of water with the right/bigger elbows! They can be glued in. Doesn't need fastened with strings or copper from the outside, lol.

I'm an IT manager and do it all around OUR house and truck, not a plumber, but I did it all myself here with our home, well pump, pressure tank, etc. You need to figure out what the pressure off/on values are for the pressure switch. It could be like 20/40, 30/50, 40/60, etc. If it's 20/40 psi it is probably too low. Particularly with so many filters and the dwarfed elbows. That can be changed with a few turns of the pressure switch screw! Usually 1 turn clockwise increases it by 3 psi.Then the tank has a pressure reservoir which need to be increased, too. That's not more difficult than pumping it up with a tire inflator. There's a valve somewhere on the pressure tank for it. The pressure of the empty tank should be 2-5 psi lower than the lowest psi setting on the pressure switch. Otherwise it won't work right.

You can check the lowest psi setting if you let the water run and check how much psi is on the gauge when the pump sets in! Then watch when it stops pumping and what the psi is then. That's the high psi setting.

If everything is done right it cycles between the settings. Like 30-50 psi setting it will empty the tank to the house until psi is getting to 30. Then the pump kicks in and brings it back to 50.

As somebody else mentioned there is no automatic sediment filter flush in your pic. You can buy an electric valve and connect it to the bottom of that spin filter. Connecting the cables to a timer. Another hint is to close the valve from the well system/tank and open the clean valve of the filter. So the flow of water runs backwards from the house to the filter and cleans the mesh filter itself better!

If the sediment filter clogs too quick then you can also more sediment filters, but then in PARALLEL and not in a serial line. Because then you get more filter space.

So, first check the pressure settings. That's the easiest to change and costs nothing. Have fun!

 

[LLigetfa]

The only thing I'd replace is the black elbows. They are not to code and have smaller diameter than the pipes.

That is how it is done with PEX. You don't glue PEX.

 

[Reach4]

The only thing I'd replace is the black elbows. They are not to code and have smaller diameter than the pipes.

You are mistaken about them not being to code, but that was probably be because of Mamajane's mistaken "I do have all PVC piping."

There should be more pressure drop study. A garden hose thread can go on a hose bib, laundry tap, or the drain on a water heater.

 

[Skyguy]

Thanks, Reach4! Also to LLigetfa for mentioning it with the pex pipe. True, IF it's not pvc. I thought it was. Anyways, even if it's pex it might be worth a thought to replace it with pvc and bigger elbows (and maybe even bigger pipe diameter). In the basement where all the main water lines go the pressure shouldn't drop that much. But I guess (and to remove the guessing somebody had to measure the pressure at different points of the pipe and completely agree with the pressure drop study) it is more the many filters in a row which remove most of the pressure. Those filters in parallel would be a better deal. Not sure why it's in a row/serial. OP wrote she got better pressure by circumventing those filters. It may also be a combination of that and other factors. First thing still I would do is to figure out what pressure in and out settings the switch has. Because that is the max pressure at the source. If it's too low (I see 40 on the gauge but that could be the max setting) that could be the culprit.

I never used pex here. We bought a big manufactured home. Pex already inside, but all the outside and under home plumbing I did to get the water from the well to the house and valves, etc. is first galvanized steel from the well valve up to the jet pump and pressure tank and then pvc with big diameter. Because that does not produce many restrictions. As we all know every restriction and even foot reduces the pressure a little bit. If it goes up a slope or worse straight up (like in that house) that reduces pressure as well. The black elbows I see in the pics seem to be very small in diameter. For a home with 6 people maybe a bit too small?! As mentioned I am no certified plumber, but I wouldn't use pex for the main water lines in a bigger home with elbows like that. For the pressure drop reason. I believe pex has a good reason to be used inside the home close to faucets, etc. Because there it doesn't matter much if it's smaller diameter. Just ONE faucet behind it and not a whole home and a dozen like with main water pipes.

Just some info from experience: Our sediment water filter definitely needs a cleaning every now and then. The sand sticks to the mesh and that reduces pressure. And if the pressure from the tank is higher that helps as well putting the water through.

First I put 2 filters in a row in there. First the sediment filter then a standard RV activated coal filter. As I measured the water quality we didn't really need the RV filter. But better to be safe right? Found out it reduced the pressure too much. So I removed it. Now we only have the sediment filter. And even that as I said removes the pressure a lot after a while without cleaning.

Take care everybody and have a nice Memorial day.

You are mistaken about them not being to code, but that was probably be because of Mamajane's mistaken "I do have all PVC piping."

There should be more pressure drop study. A garden hose thread can go on a hose bib, laundry tap, or the drain on a water heater.

 

[Skyguy]

Another idea: What could also be done to prep up the pressure is putting in a second pressure tank AFTER the filter/s. That way the water can flow a bit slower to the second pressure tank but the second pressure tank can deliver the full pressure without the filter reduction.

 

[Reach4]

Another idea: What could also be done to prep up the pressure is putting in a second pressure tank AFTER the filter/s. That way the water can flow a bit slower to the second pressure tank but the second pressure tank can deliver the full pressure without the filter reduction.

It doesn't work that way, except for a short use of water. For example, if you had a flushometer toilet in the house, you could use a pressure tank, fed via a check valve, near the toilet to deliver 25 gpm for a few seconds. But for regular loads, distributed pressure tanks are not a good idea.