Giantsean
Member
Hi All,
I've recently contracted an HVAC co. (basically a 2-man operation, friend of good friends situation) to install a hydro-air setup in my house. Vital stats below:
1952 cape
Southern Connecticut
1st floor mix of brick on block (old side) and brick on wood (~1300 SF)
2nd floor wood framed front and rear dormers (~1150 SF)
Previously heated by Navien CH-240 and a mix of cast iron radiators + baseboard
New setup is:
Same Navien boiler
2 x AS TAM7 air handlers (1/F in basement 2 ton; 2/F in attic 2.5 ton)
1/F is 2 zone (about evenly split) - old "colder" side (brick/block) and new "warmer" side (brick on wood) - registers/returns in floor
2/F is single zone - registers/returns in ceiling
Honeywell HZ221 ZC
returns in each room except bathrooms and kitchen
So far these guys have seemed pretty good. Not the most polished or conscientious but not outwardly shady by any means. Right now the ductwork is all done and heat is on, just waiting for the cooling portion, which tie into some of my issues/questions.
First issue:
Originally the contract called for 2 ADP B series air handlers and Rheem RAPM series 14 SEER consensers (technically the quote says they are AJM but they verbally told me they'd be the RAPM - they gave me the cut sheet for those). I was quoted the variable speed fan option and when the first AH arrived and was installed, I went up to inspect and found it was a 3-speed. I called them on it and they promptly pulled it out. Can't recall how/why but we got started talking about upgrading the units but I asked whether they can upgrade to the AS TAM 7's. They told me we could for an additional $650 (I thought he said for both vs. each, but more on that later). They then suggested to upgrade the condensers to AS Silver XI units. The difference in the quote from the ADP/Rheem to all-AS was $2000. I have this in a text and in a quote softcopy.
Fast forward to now and it's time to buy the condensers. They are telling me they messed up and they'll need an additional $3500 (up $1500 to the quoted $2000) to go with the Silver XI's. They swear it was a mistake yadda yadda. I'm willing to take them at their word but I'm a trust but verify type of guy. Trouble is that it's extremely difficult to verify when there is no real pricing available for Trane/AS stuff. So my question is simple. Does the addition of those units (TAM7/SilverXI) justify a $3500 delta over the ADP/Rheem stuff? Note per them this is unit price only, no markup.
Second issue:
I was quoted 2 of the same HHC's for both of the TAM7's, which was model BAYWVBB07SCA0AA. What was actually installed was a BAYWAAA05SC1AAA for the 1/F and BAYWVBB07SC1AAA for the 2/F. From what I can tell the AA05 is good for 42K BTU and the BB07 54K BTU. Besides being annoyed that they were different, my first thought was why would they put a bigger coil upstairs for rooms that are WAY better insulated than the rooms downstairs, and has only one zone. The only thing I could think of is that with the AH in unconditioned space it would need a little extra. Still from all the "rules of thumb" I could find, 42K is a bit undersized for a 1300 terribly insulated house in Connecticut. I can't imagine the price difference is THAT substantial that it would be worth it to rip me off, so I'm kind of scratching my head at this one. The problem though is that if it gets cold enough (about 40F outside) I cannot hit 70F inside... max is about 68. Not sure if issue 2 is the reason, a contributing factor, or there are other issues (and I don't expect anyone here to know w/o more info)
Third issue:
The Navien has DHW prioritized, and I don't even know if there is an option to NOT have it like this. Problem I'm having is is that when DHW is called for, the AH's blow cold air. I understand there are ways to avoid this (shut off the fan when the call for DHW is made) but I don't know much about the options. I'd like to talk to these guys from an informed standpoint so any info would be great
Fourth issue:
Whenever the AH provides heat the ZC has the emergency heat light lit (it is all or nothing AFAIK). Not sure why this is - either this is how hydro works or it's wired funky. Not a huge deal, more of a nice to know.
Sorry for the book and I am not out to stiff any pros... I just want to be as informed as possible. I have been burned before and it is quite hard to find local people to ask that aren't trying to sell you on something.
Many thanks for any advice!
I've recently contracted an HVAC co. (basically a 2-man operation, friend of good friends situation) to install a hydro-air setup in my house. Vital stats below:
1952 cape
Southern Connecticut
1st floor mix of brick on block (old side) and brick on wood (~1300 SF)
2nd floor wood framed front and rear dormers (~1150 SF)
Previously heated by Navien CH-240 and a mix of cast iron radiators + baseboard
New setup is:
Same Navien boiler
2 x AS TAM7 air handlers (1/F in basement 2 ton; 2/F in attic 2.5 ton)
1/F is 2 zone (about evenly split) - old "colder" side (brick/block) and new "warmer" side (brick on wood) - registers/returns in floor
2/F is single zone - registers/returns in ceiling
Honeywell HZ221 ZC
returns in each room except bathrooms and kitchen
So far these guys have seemed pretty good. Not the most polished or conscientious but not outwardly shady by any means. Right now the ductwork is all done and heat is on, just waiting for the cooling portion, which tie into some of my issues/questions.
First issue:
Originally the contract called for 2 ADP B series air handlers and Rheem RAPM series 14 SEER consensers (technically the quote says they are AJM but they verbally told me they'd be the RAPM - they gave me the cut sheet for those). I was quoted the variable speed fan option and when the first AH arrived and was installed, I went up to inspect and found it was a 3-speed. I called them on it and they promptly pulled it out. Can't recall how/why but we got started talking about upgrading the units but I asked whether they can upgrade to the AS TAM 7's. They told me we could for an additional $650 (I thought he said for both vs. each, but more on that later). They then suggested to upgrade the condensers to AS Silver XI units. The difference in the quote from the ADP/Rheem to all-AS was $2000. I have this in a text and in a quote softcopy.
Fast forward to now and it's time to buy the condensers. They are telling me they messed up and they'll need an additional $3500 (up $1500 to the quoted $2000) to go with the Silver XI's. They swear it was a mistake yadda yadda. I'm willing to take them at their word but I'm a trust but verify type of guy. Trouble is that it's extremely difficult to verify when there is no real pricing available for Trane/AS stuff. So my question is simple. Does the addition of those units (TAM7/SilverXI) justify a $3500 delta over the ADP/Rheem stuff? Note per them this is unit price only, no markup.
Second issue:
I was quoted 2 of the same HHC's for both of the TAM7's, which was model BAYWVBB07SCA0AA. What was actually installed was a BAYWAAA05SC1AAA for the 1/F and BAYWVBB07SC1AAA for the 2/F. From what I can tell the AA05 is good for 42K BTU and the BB07 54K BTU. Besides being annoyed that they were different, my first thought was why would they put a bigger coil upstairs for rooms that are WAY better insulated than the rooms downstairs, and has only one zone. The only thing I could think of is that with the AH in unconditioned space it would need a little extra. Still from all the "rules of thumb" I could find, 42K is a bit undersized for a 1300 terribly insulated house in Connecticut. I can't imagine the price difference is THAT substantial that it would be worth it to rip me off, so I'm kind of scratching my head at this one. The problem though is that if it gets cold enough (about 40F outside) I cannot hit 70F inside... max is about 68. Not sure if issue 2 is the reason, a contributing factor, or there are other issues (and I don't expect anyone here to know w/o more info)
Third issue:
The Navien has DHW prioritized, and I don't even know if there is an option to NOT have it like this. Problem I'm having is is that when DHW is called for, the AH's blow cold air. I understand there are ways to avoid this (shut off the fan when the call for DHW is made) but I don't know much about the options. I'd like to talk to these guys from an informed standpoint so any info would be great
Fourth issue:
Whenever the AH provides heat the ZC has the emergency heat light lit (it is all or nothing AFAIK). Not sure why this is - either this is how hydro works or it's wired funky. Not a huge deal, more of a nice to know.
Sorry for the book and I am not out to stiff any pros... I just want to be as informed as possible. I have been burned before and it is quite hard to find local people to ask that aren't trying to sell you on something.
Many thanks for any advice!