a few questions about my well

dimambro2 · Dec 30, 2009

Ok for starters I have a 4" casing thats 36' deep with a 3/4hp pump dropped into it. the pump is roughly 300' from the house on the neighbors property(long story) the well produces 7gpm at least thats what the well log states. I have a 32gallon bladder tank set at 38lbs the flow switch is set to 40/60. I have noticed that there is no check valve between the tank and the pump was this just over looked or is one needed? Question # 2 when taking a shower I notice a significant pressure drop especially if someone turns on any other faucet or flushes a toilet......almost a trickle.....how do I fix this?
by the way I would ask my well drilling professional about this except he passed away 3 weeks after he finished....shame on me for paying on time

thanks
Chris

Cacher_Chick · Dec 30, 2009

The check valve is normally built into the pump. There is no need for another one.

What you don't know right now is how much water your pump is actually pumping.

Observe the pressure gauge to see if it is falling too low while the water is running from the shower and a sink. If the pump can maintain around 40 or better the well is not the problem.

If that is the case, it's likely that the volume is lacking due to a restriction in the house. Unmaintained filters or softeners can cause this. Old galvanized pipes are also a likely culprit.

If the pressure is falling too low at the gauge, it could be that the pump is undersized or that there is a restriction between the pump inlet and the pressure tank. Because the well can produce 7 gpm does not mean that the pump can, or should.

Sponsor · 2022-01-29T12:20:58-0800

NHmaster · Dec 30, 2009

How long have you lived in the house and has this always been a problem or did it start recently.?

dimambro2 · Jan 1, 2010

The house was built in 2008 we have lived here since then..it has always been a small problem but we are trying to fix it. we do have a ge whole house filter that I wil check it has been a month or so since it was changed out. any other help would be great.

thanks
Chris

Masterpumpman · Jan 1, 2010

If the pump is holding pressure while drawing water from the demand the problem isn't in the pump!

It sounds like there is a restriction between the tank and the demand. Possibly a partially plugged filter or to small or restricted water lines.

You'll need to a check to locate the restriction. You may have to locate a qualified licensed and hopefully certified pump installer to diagnose your problem.

If you don't know such a person I suggest that you contact a Milan Supplier in your area http://www.milansupply.com/ and ask them to recommend a qualified pump man. Tell them "Porky" sent you!

Gary Slusser · Jan 1, 2010

dimambro2 said:
The house was built in 2008 we have lived here since then..it has always been a small problem but we are trying to fix it. we do have a ge whole house filter that I wil check it has been a month or so since it was changed out. any other help would be great.

Why do you have the filter, was the water ever discolored or dirty? If so what color and were there any particles in it?

If not, remove the cartridge because there is no sense in filtering invisible dirt and the disposable cartridge filters were not invented for point of entry (POE) filtration; they were invented for POUse for a coffee/ice tea maker, ice making machine etc. etc..

Gary Slusser · Jan 1, 2010

Angel Eyes said:
Something you can do yourself. On your pressure tank is a sample tap. Run a hose from that. With a watch and 5 gallon bucket, see how much the well is really producing.

That is not very deep. It is just a little more than code in Michigan. I really question if it is "pumping off".

That does not tell you the output of the well, it only tells you the flow through the boiler drain valve which is a 1/2" or 3/4" stop valve.

The only way to find the output of the "well" is to lift the drop pipe out of the well a foot or two and run the pump and measure the gpm at your average water pressure; I.E. 30/50 switch setting is 40 psi average.

NHmaster · Jan 1, 2010

dimambro2 said:
The house was built in 2008 we have lived here since then..it has always been a small problem but we are trying to fix it. we do have a ge whole house filter that I wil check it has been a month or so since it was changed out. any other help would be great.

thanks
Chris

Try taking the cartridge out of the filter and see if the pressure/volume increases.

Gary Slusser · Jan 1, 2010

Angel Eyes said:
Sure but, could the OP do that?? It will give him a better idea.

BTW, lifting the pipe will just tell what the pump will do. My well produces 100 gallon a minute. My pump would never do that.

Why do you suppose the OP couldn't do that? If he can lift the weight by hand or some other means, anyone can do it.

It won't just give him a better idea, it will give him the actual gpm at the static water level in the well when he does it. And that holds true if the static water level falls as he pumps water out of the well until the pump can't do the job anymore. It is the only way to come up with actual numbers; there is no other way.

And if you think about it, until you get the water out of the well, the well isn't producing anything but the cost of drilling it and hooking it up to your house and installing a pump.

Until you turn on the pump, you get nothing out of the well except a good feeling that you can get water into your house. Which if you can't, the house is worth less than if you had running water in it.

Since your pump can't pump 100 gpm, your well does not produce 100 gpm... it recovers (if you take any water out of it) at 100 gpm which means your static water level will never fall no matter how many gpm you pump for however long you pump it. But until you pump water out of it, it does not produce anything but an expense.

Gary Slusser · Jan 1, 2010

Peter Griffin said:
I just finished reading this post off another forum and it comes from a respected member here who has years upon years of experience in the well drilling business. I am posting it here because I think the advice is invaluable to anybody experiencing well water quality problems.

You need to solve the problem at the source. . . the well.
Driller1 suggested contacting the state/county regulator and obtain a well log of your well. This should have the specifications on your well as well as the drilling contractor that drilled your well. Then I would recommend that you contact that driller and tell him your problem. Most reputable drillers don't want the reputation of a bad well. That contractor should help you. If he won't you may have some legal options! Some states require a Bond to be licensed. In the event a driller does bad work the state will give the driller the option of rectifying it or face fines. I don't usually recommend legal action against a driller but sometimes you don't have many options.
That being said you may want to contact http://www.ngwa.org/cert/contractor/mgwclst.aspx for a Master Certified Ground Water Contractor/Consultant in your area. Contact that person and present your situation. He should be able to assist you over the telephone and probably at no charge. When contacting that MGWC tell him that "Porky Cutter" recommended that you call them.

Porky Cutter, MGWC
Master Ground Water Consultant
www.dci-inc.us

What is your point, this thread is about a pressure loss, not water quality problem, or isn't there one except to say homeowners/well owners shouldn't be DIYers and/or simply to disagree with me?

dimambro2 · Jan 1, 2010

ok to help clear up some of the back and forth banter which is kind of interesting, I pulled out my well log from the driller(by the way I built this house and am very capable of pulling the pump and any maintenance)
well depth 37'
plastic casing 5"
static water level 1' below ground level
pumping level(below land surface) 28' after 4 hrs pumping@6gpm
ss screen 4" diameter slot 12-12 length 4'4" set between 37' and 30'
well grouted 27' to top bentonite slurry

drilling log:
topsoil 0 to 1'
clay gray 1' to 8'
sand fine 8' to 13'
clay gray 13' to 19'
sand and gravel 19' to 23'
clay gray 23' to 29'
sand and gravel 29' to 37'

any other info needed please ask I took the well log to the local well supplier and they set me up with pump size and piping, pressure tank and all that stuff. I am an Electrician by trade and did most of the pumping with the help of a master plumber off of a job site so I know the ins and outs of this house.

thanks
Chris

Gary Slusser · Jan 1, 2010

To C said:
Still know more than me Gary?? I know the OP address. GPS numbers on the well too.

I know that none of what you have said has anything to do with solving his problems. And I see you think his well isn't deep enough because others in his area are deeper but some the same depth etc. etc.. And I know that this demonstrates how great you think you are.

NHmaster · Jan 1, 2010

Gary Slusser said:
What is your point, this thread is about a pressure loss, not water quality problem, or isn't there one except to say homeowners/well owners shouldn't be DIYers and/or simply to disagree with me?

Not directed at you at all. I feel that the pressure problem may well be a combination of a low yield well coupled with some questionable piping both between the well and house and within the house itself.

NHmaster · Jan 1, 2010

Not entirely accurate but, since the well is 300' away ( not an insurmountable distance mind you) and the well yield is in question, running a flow test at the pressure tank would at least give some idea as to whether or not the problem is within the house piping or between the well and the house.
It would probably be a good idea to do some flow rate checks is a couple places. At the well. At the tank and again at the faucet furthest from the tank.

dimambro2 · Jan 2, 2010

ok did a flow test at the tank off of the sample tap. I ended up getting 7.5 gpm according to my calculations gpm=5 gallons /(40sec/60sec). took 40 seconds to fill 5 gallons which would equal 7.5 gpm. not going to do a flow test at the well until it gets a little closer to the freezing mark -10 with wind chill. anything else i can check inside...oh and everyone withing a 2 mile radius of my is around the same well depth give or take 15 feet. next door 38' accross the street 40' 2 houses down 35'. and I do have a little sediment that will come though every once in a while.

NHmaster · Jan 2, 2010

so you have 7.5 gpm at the well tank and when you consider that the average toilet uses 3 gpm and a shower is 3gpm and a sink is 2 gpm, if anyone uses any water while you are in the shower you loose about 1/2 the capacity.

Gary Slusser · Jan 2, 2010

dimambro2 said:
ok did a flow test at the tank off of the sample tap. I ended up getting 7.5 gpm according to my calculations gpm=5 gallons /(40sec/60sec). took 40 seconds to fill 5 gallons which would equal 7.5 gpm. not going to do a flow test at the well until it gets a little closer to the freezing mark -10 with wind chill. anything else i can check inside...oh and everyone withing a 2 mile radius of my is around the same well depth give or take 15 feet. next door 38' accross the street 40' 2 houses down 35'. and I do have a little sediment that will come though every once in a while.

You never answered my question about why you have the GE filter and what and how much of it you are filtering.

So have you removed the cartridge and put the sump back on the housing and run the water to see if flow improves? If not you shouldn't do anything else until you do. Even if you just changed it two days ago.

What micron rating cartridge are you using?

You said you have a 3/4 hp pump but what gpm is it?

What ID pipe and what type material for the 300' run to the house?

That 7 gpm you mentioned from the well log, that is the volume of water that recovers (runs into) the well when you pump water out of it. It is not the production of the well because the well doesn't produce anything until you pump water out of it. And the 7 gpm you got out of the tank drain valve, it is all that can flow through the 1/2" or 3/4" valve, not the output of the pump or system.

dimambro2 · Jan 3, 2010

Gary Slusser said:
You never answered my question about why you have the GE filter and what and how much of it you are filtering.

So have you removed the cartridge and put the sump back on the housing and run the water to see if flow improves? If not you shouldn't do anything else until you do. Even if you just changed it two days ago.

What micron rating cartridge are you using?

You said you have a 3/4 hp pump but what gpm is it?

What ID pipe and what type material for the 300' run to the house?

That 7 gpm you mentioned from the well log, that is the volume of water that recovers (runs into) the well when you pump water out of it. It is not the production of the well because the well doesn't produce anything until you pump water out of it. And the 7 gpm you got out of the tank drain valve, it is all that can flow through the 1/2" or 3/4" valve, not the output of the pump or system.

First off the GE filter was a whole house filter that the local well supplier set me up with it was just used for sediment control. I couldn't tell you the micron size. and i did take it out to find very little improvement if not my imagination.

I have to find the paper work on the pump to tell you the gpm it can flow hopfully I can post it later.

and the pipe from the well to the house is 3/4 again what the local well supplier set me up with.

NHmaster · Jan 3, 2010

So you have 300 feet of 3/4" pipe from the well to the house?

If so, that would be the major source of your problem.

Gary Slusser · Jan 3, 2010

Peter Griffin said:
I just finished reading this post off another forum and it comes from a respected member here who has years upon years of experience in the well drilling business. I am posting it here because I think the advice is invaluable to anybody experiencing well water quality problems.

You need to solve the problem at the source. . . the well.
Driller1 suggested contacting the state/county regulator and obtain a well log of your well. This should have the specifications on your well as well as the drilling contractor that drilled your well. Then I would recommend that you contact that driller and tell him your problem. Most reputable drillers don't want the reputation of a bad well. That contractor should help you. If he won't you may have some legal options! Some states require a Bond to be licensed. In the event a driller does bad work the state will give the driller the option of rectifying it or face fines. I don't usually recommend legal action against a driller but sometimes you don't have many options.
That being said you may want to contact http://www.ngwa.org/cert/contractor/mgwclst.aspx for a Master Certified Ground Water Contractor/Consultant in your area. Contact that person and present your situation. He should be able to assist you over the telephone and probably at no charge. When contacting that MGWC tell him that "Porky Cutter" recommended that you call them.

Porky Cutter, MGWC
Master Ground Water Consultant
www.dci-inc.us

Here is something else he said on that forum, note the part about liners in a well:

****************
This is for NH Master Plearify your statement (Porky, I would like to see you edit that post to be less job specific and post it as a sticky on the other forum you belong to).

I do agree though many people think a filter is a solution to almost everything. Sediment filtration is only a temporary patch for the real problem. . . the well.

A silt producing well will eventually kill the pump, pressure switch, tank and eventually destroy the home appliances.

Most times a well can be repaired however every driller prefers to sometimes place a liner in a well, I don't approve of that if there are other options. Most reputable well drillers guarantee clear water, however in most areas they can't guarantee quantity or quality water. Meaning minerals and gasses in a well.

I'm sorry to post this on this persons question but I didn't know how else to do it. I'm a driller not a computer person!
************

a few questions about my well

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