Well running dry? (with video)

[kawizx62003]

This is a small multifamily property. The well and pressure tank is in the woods about 350 feet from house. My problems started when the pressure tank was stolen. That was replaced but since it didn't have a low pressure cut off switch, the pump soon burned up. SO of course the well was run dry at that point (they cut the braided hose and took tank).

Replaced the pump which was a 1HP with a 3/4 HP as it was only one available in the emergency. Everything has been fine for 2 months. Last few days tenants complaining of no/low water. Yesterday I went to check it. When I got there, the pump was running and pressure was zero. The gauge was pretty beat up so I replaced and replaced tubing to gauge. No help. Replaced pressure switch as I had a spare, no good. Pump made it to cut off once and then couldn't again. Cracking the valve, I'd get a normal good stream, then sputtering with air and then dry.

I removed check valve and ran pump straight from well. Water would run but with some air and then eventually stop (maybe a min). Then I'd cut breaker and flip back on, depending how long it was off would depend on how long it ran until dry again. Put back together so they had water and I see even over night it did not reach cut off pressure.

The well pipe is about 200+ deep, that's all I know from pulling it.

I am very reluctant to call a company as there is city water available but of course that's at least $1000 tap fee for one meter, which sticks me with a large bill for 4 units each month and no one caring about water conservation. 4 separate meters would be $4000.


So judging by that info and the video, is there any other possible cause besides well running dry? Should I add 10' or so of poly pipe?

 

[Valveman]

No doubt it is pumping the well dry. It won't pump that much water when connected to the pressure tank and houses, but will just take a little longer to pump dry. You can use a Cycle Sensor to protect the pump from running dry. But you may need a storage/cistern tank with a booster pump to store enough water. A well that only makes 1 GPM will supply 1440 gallons per day, which can run 4-5 houses no problem. You just need to store the water at 1 GPM so the booster pump can supply up to 25 GPM for a while when all the houses are using water at the same time.

 

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[kawizx62003]

No doubt it is pumping the well dry. It won't pump that much water when connected to the pressure tank and houses, but will just take a little longer to pump dry. You can use a Cycle Sensor to protect the pump from running dry. But you may need a storage/cistern tank with a booster pump to store enough water. A well that only makes 1 GPM will supply 1440 gallons per day, which can run 4-5 houses no problem. You just need to store the water at 1 GPM so the booster pump can supply up to 25 GPM for a while when all the houses are using water at the same time.

View attachment 57398

Ok thanks. Anything I can do immediately so they continue to have water? Is add some poly pipe to it?

 

[Reach4]

If the water stopped flowing because there was no water, the current would continue at a reduced rate. You might use a clamp-around ammeter around the red wire to see what the current does when the water stops.

I am very reluctant to call a company as there is city water available but of course that's at least $1000 tap fee for one meter, which sticks me with a large bill for 4 units each month and no one caring about water conservation.

Can you have the meters in the tenant's names, and withhold security deposit until the water bill is paid?

 

[LLigetfa]

Without knowing the specs on the original 1 HP pump and its 3/4 HP replacement, it is hard to say whether the replacement can pump from a greater depth and still be able to reach cut-out pressure. Also, you don't say how deep the well is, what the static water level is, what the recovery rate is, or what the casing size is. Adding 10 feet of pipe might only net you 10 more gallons before it again runs out of water.

You may have a leak somewhere squandering water that should be fixed.

 

[kawizx62003]

Without knowing the specs on the original 1 HP pump and its 3/4 HP replacement, it is hard to say whether the replacement can pump from a greater depth and still be able to reach cut-out pressure. Also, you don't say how deep the well is, what the static water level is, what the recovery rate is, or what the casing size is. Adding 10 feet of pipe might only net you 10 more gallons before it again runs out of water.

You may have a leak somewhere squandering water that should be fixed.

Unfortunately I don’t have any of that info except it’s a 6 inch casing
The pump has been working great for 2 months so it leads me to believe it is running dry. Especially because of the pressure tank theft. Good point on the depth issue. I just realized it’s only pumping from that casing size not an ocean u undergrond.

 

[VAWellDriller]

Short term you can install a PumpTec, or Cycle Sensor that will automatically shut the pump off when it overpumps the well and restart itself so wate can be restored without you being there. Grundfos 3" pump have that feature built in with a 5 minute delay so you have have to do any wiring. Start looking for leaks...my thought that is most likely thing that brought this on suddenly.

 

[kawizx62003]

Short term you can install a PumpTec, or Cycle Sensor that will automatically shut the pump off when it overpumps the well and restart itself so wate can be restored without you being there. Grundfos 3" pump have that feature built in with a 5 minute delay so you have have to do any wiring. Start looking for leaks...my thought that is most likely thing that brought this on suddenly.

Ok thanks. So could still be a leak between the pump and well too? Even if I let it sit off longer and it pumps water for longer? Meaning the longer it sits pump off the more recovery?

I will look at that pump makes sense to me.

 

[kawizx62003]

Actually come to think of it I guess if there’s a crack in the black poly pipe that submersed in the world is operating properly and then when the water level gets below that crack it would pull the air is that what you mea actually come to think of it I guess if there’s a crack in the black poly pipe that submersed when the wall is operating properly and then when the water level gets below that crack it would pull the air is that right? Because you’re right it was a sudden issue even though we had the theft issue but that’s been two months

 

[Reach4]

Actually come to think of it I guess if there’s a crack in the black poly pipe that submersed in the world is operating properly and then when the water level gets below that crack it would pull the air is that what you mea actually come to think of it I guess if there’s a crack in the black poly pipe that submersed when the wall is operating properly and then when the water level gets below that crack it would pull the air is that right?

I don't see a check valve topside, which is good. Normally a crack in the drop pipe would cause cycling even if no water is being used by the houses. Because the drop pipe is normally pressurized, it will not suck in air.

 

[kawizx62003]

I don't see a check valve topside, which is good. Normally a crack in the drop pipe would cause cycling even if no water is being used by the houses. Because the drop pipe is normally pressurized, it will not suck in air.

Yeas that’s right makes sense. Just having to think a little more. Realizing a submersible pump is pushing water up my theory does not make sense Of a crack in pipe.

 

[LLigetfa]

...and then when the water level gets below that crack it would pull the air is that right?

From what I can see of the wellhead, you have submersible pump. If the poly pipe in the well has a leak, the water would just recirculate until it got hot enough to trip the thermal overload. If there was a leak between the wellhead and the buildings, the water would be squandered. You could also have leaking fixtures in the buildings squandering water down the drain.

 

[VAWellDriller]

I was thinking about a leak in the distribution that caused demand to increase sharply (could be as little as a toilet running in one of the houses).....I know you said it worked fine for 2 months after pressure tank was stolen....how long did it work just fine before that? Something drastic changed, and I doubt the well yield changed that much that quickly.

 

[Valveman]

Even a little 1 GPM leak will take 1440 gallons a day out of the well. Let the pressure tank fill and the pump shut off. With no one using water the pressure tank should stay at the max pressure. If the pressure is dropping even when no water is being used there is a leak somewhere.

Better yet turn the power off to the pump for an hour. Then see how much water it will pump when you turn it back on.

I always wondered how the SQ turned itself back on. Coming back on every 5 minutes is better than just letting the pump run until it burns up, but 5 minutes probably isn't enough to let the well recover. We use a lot of Cycle Sensors with the SQ pumps. That way you can program how long you want the well to recover before the pump restarts. And the 10 second delay in the Cycle Sensor is why it is one of the only things that will work with the 5 second soft start from the SQ.

 

[VAWellDriller]

Even a little 1 GPM leak will take 1440 gallons a day out of the well. Let the pressure tank fill and the pump shut off. With no one using water the pressure tank should stay at the max pressure. If the pressure is dropping even when no water is being used there is a leak somewhere.

Better yet turn the power off to the pump for an hour. Then see how much water it will pump when you turn it back on.

I always wondered how the SQ turned itself back on. Coming back on every 5 minutes is better than just letting the pump run until it burns up, but 5 minutes probably isn't enough to let the well recover. We use a lot of Cycle Sensors with the SQ pumps. That way you can program how long you want the well to recover before the pump restarts. And the 10 second delay in the Cycle Sensor is why it is one of the only things that will work with the 5 second soft start from the SQ.

It is based on amp draw.....comes factory set. I don't see many low yielding wells but these have worked well when I do....as to the 5 minutes....every well is different sometimes 5 min makes a big difference...sometimes 5 hours isn't enough.